2 Things

The separation of families is happening to many – See John 3:16-20 and 2 Corinthians 2:15-16

Many people are leaving churches, opting for aloneness or meeting in homes as a witness of false Christianity in its various forms is being revealed. The church, especially the westernized one has abandoned the reasons it was established in the first place.

2 Corinthians 4:7-??? be encouraged we are not alone, many brothers and sisters share and suffer in the same things.

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20 thoughts on “2 Things

  1. THE CHURCH MAKES MERCHANDISE OF US, BUILDINGS, AND GIMICKS. I WOULD NOT GO TO A CHURCH FOR A THOUSAND DOLLARS. RATHER DO SOMETHING FREE FOR THE SALVATION ARMY!

  2. Bob-if you’re a believer, you’ll be spending eternity with the Church. This would be a good time to get used to us. We can’t love one another as commanded unless we’re actually WITH one another. Hebrews 10:25 makes it pretty clear as to what is God’s opinion of us not being in fellowship AS the Church. I tremble at the thought of your “thousand dollar” remark being replayed for Jesus when He judges us (2 Cor. 5:10).

  3. David, the same Bible tells us to “Come out of her and touch not the unclean thing”, talking about the ‘church’. We also told to have no fellowship with those who are false prophets, teach heresies, preach another gospel & another Jesus. 2nd John 1:10-11 tells not to even wish such people ‘God speed’, or we’ll be condemned with them for their apostasy. Obviously, we are called to fellowship with TRUE brothers & sisters when we can, but the commandment to belong to a church is NOT found in the Bible. Paul spent years on his own being taught by the Holy Spirit, because that was God’s purpose for him. I’m not saying that is what everyone should do just because they feel like it, but there is still no divine directive that you MUST belong to and attend religiously, a church body, still less that you MUST tithe to it, but rather there are many passages that tell us to flee from false doctrine, false teachers, wolves in sheep’s clothing, heresy, apostasy, ministers of Satan, people who want to get rich by flattering the church, false signs & wonders.
    These things are to be found in the New Apostolic Roundtable (or Restoration is the word nowadays), Roman Catholic Church, Promise Keepers, Prayer of Jabez, Christian Psychology, Purpose Drivel, IHOP, Emergent/Emerging, Spiritual Disciplines, Fire Tunnels, ‘Soaking’, Labyrinths, Contemplative Prayer (also known as; the silence, practicing the presence, centering prayer, et al), going to ‘heaven’ (this is ‘sanctified’ astral travel, practiced by a number of the more extreme Charismatic/Pentecostal teachers. They teach people how to ‘get in the spirit’, so they can take a trip to heaven. They teach 8 & 9 year olds this!).
    Do you know, ALL these people, these workers of iniquity mentioned above? They ALL, without fail, quote exactly the arguments you put forward as reasons why they should be left alone to do their evil work. They are like the devil, who uses the Word of God with a particular slant, to manipulate people into believing a lie. The verse you refer to has to be balanced against WHOLE counsel of scripture, just like every other verse in the scripture. The NT has more warnings against fellowshipping with the wrong doctrines and people that it does about the dangers of not gathering together. Fellowship is like a very useful heating fuel which can be very beneficial in the winter months, even necessary, but it comes with PAGES of warnings about what NOT to do with it, that most sensible people take great care to read and follow. The bible talks of fellowship in the same way if we read carefully enough, but we listen to our pastors words that we don’t have to worry about that too much, and we believe it, and we are deceived, just like the Bible warns we will be.
    Bob, I’m with you brother!
    Shalom,
    Al.

  4. I am baptist in the land of baptists (Southeast Texas). There are a thousand baptist churches within driving distance, but none we will attend. I have been asked to leave two baptist churches when bad theology began to come in the doors and into the pulpit (this was very hard on my family, my wife and then young children).

    God has been gracious. We are attending a conservative (confessional) Lutheran church on Sundays. We get a wonderful expositional bible study in adult Sunday School. The word of God is read in every service. The pastor’s idea of contemporary worship music is that which is written between 1800 and 1900.
    I cannot join, but I look forward to going to church every Sunday.

    I think God will deal differently with each of his children in this apostate age.

    • Hi Jim G.
      Thanks for your contribution. I agree if a solid, bible based church is out there it is a good idea to attend one. If not, leave. The Lord will not leave us to starve.

  5. Amen, if there is a solid church out there, go! Far and few between, though. If not, I say-don’t listen to the manipulators out there that would tell us that if we aren’t a part of a local body, (a visible church) we are not part of His Bride-couldn’t possibly be one of His. As we see folks fleeing from the visible Apostate church, seeing more and more of these kinds of messages to ‘get the people under control’….. (of course we know what that’s all about!!, don’t we?) I know of so many who leave and then after awhile feel guilty that they aren’t going to ‘some building’ and go right back into it because they have the, ‘Well, there is nowhere else to go and the kiddies need to be in church”, mentality. Uh oh. So right, M’kayla, He will not leave us to starve. If we have to drive a long distance to that solid Biblical church, so be it, or if there is none to be found- that’s the way, as they say, ‘movin’ west’ in these Apostate times…and it won’t get any better, so may as well ask the Lord for wisdom and grace- now- on how to live in this age of deception in regards to separating from it….permanently. (understanding that there are still good churches out there….at least for the time being)

  6. Of course there are churches that do this stuff. I’m only commenting on THIS site because I’m already aware of that! My response was to Bob who said, “THE CHURCH MAKES MERCHANDISE OF US, BUILDINGS, AND GIMICKS. I WOULD NOT GO TO A CHURCH FOR A THOUSAND DOLLARS. RATHER DO SOMETHING FREE FOR THE SALVATION ARMY!” To lump the errors made by people who sin as “The Church”, then refuse to participate with “The Church” is a poor decision IMO.

    What do you think Jesus was teaching in the Parable of the Weeds (Matt. 13:24-30)? The wheat and tares will grow up together and be separated at the harvest. (I know that our Dispensationalist brothers and sisters will tell us that this parable is for the Jews during the tribulation. Oh, we’d better have no fellowship with them either).

    Is God’s plan really to leave us to be Lone Ranger Christians? How will we be built together (Eph. 2:22) if we’re not together? Is THAT the Church, built up together (Eph. 2:22), given gifts for the common good (1 Cor. 12:7), and with “each member belonging to the others (Rom. 12:5)? If you live in a town that has ONLY worldly mega-churches and gold dust diggers, then you are in a very special situation. If you’ve experienced such a church and are ready to lump all of God’s Church into that same category, I suggest you’ve made a mistake.

    If the TRUE Christians are to respond by telling people to leave the apostate Church, we can be sure that the OTHER TRUE Christians will lump us in with Harold Camping and his radio network!

    • There are many Christians who have gone from church to church, large and small, and have found it necessary to leave them all because of the various forms of false doctrine. Just because we are without a church building to go to does not make us alone, as God will never leave us.

      I want to this very clear, my intent is to bring encouragement to Christians who are seeing this happen so that they will know they are not alone. It does not matter how we are “lumped” together by the public, which I believe is the wheat and tares. The truth is what matters. Christ is calling people out. I don’t understand your last sentence. True Christians know Camping is false because Christ said that no one knows the day. I think you are confusing the issue.

  7. All good comments here. I too face this dilemma and I work at my church that is falling slowly into the mill of contemplative prayer, mystics, Rick Warren and many other things. I have a study group made up of mostly former attenders of this church, we have studied together at least 8 years. We also have an online church (VERY small) that we all connect with. The truth is being preached at this church, no mystical mumbo jumbo. I find we are like in the desert, but Christ and His Holy Spirit are giving us living water thru each other and our online connection. I pray for all those led astray by the new age religion out there. Thanks M”kayla, you are a blessing!

  8. If you are without a good biblical church for a season – worship at home. Read a chapter of Scripture out loud – pray together – sing some hymns. People are the church not the building – wherever two or more are gathered in His Name – there He is in the midst.

  9. I should add that the church we are currently attending will be dead soon.
    The median age of members is over 60. The Lord has not revealed to me
    what will happen then. I only know that He is quite able to care for His
    remnant.

    These are apostate times. There is little interest in solid biblical teaching
    among those who profess to know Christ.

  10. Claire, I changed the format on commenting and is why you are not seeing a reply button anymore. I didn’t like the nested comments for several reasons. I guess if we want to address a person specifically we need to address it in their name at the beginning.

  11. Okay, okay. I realize I’m not going to win the fight against those who are committed to leaving churches. I give, I give. Uncle! This conversation does leave me with many questions I hope we’re willing to consider though.

    Why did the Apostle Paul set up churches?
    Why are Paul’s letters addressed to churches?
    Why does Jesus address churches in specific places in Revelation and not “the scattered believers who wisely stopped gathering together”?
    Why does Jesus tell the people in those churches to repent, hold onto what they have, and overcome? Why not just tell them to get out?
    Has there ever been a perfect gathering of Christians for fellowship?
    Has the House Church movement proved to be an improvement? Don’t they also find themselves claiming a tax status and repairing/improving the building where they meet?
    Can we see the North American Church as a mission field? Must we leave these people to starve? Must we shake the dust off our feet so soon?
    Have we all (as the Church) made “every effort to keep the unity of the Spirit through the bond of peace”?
    Can we discern the line between ceasing to fellowship with false teachers and “bearing with them in love”?
    If God desires that none perish, but all come to repentance, how are we serving this purpose by bashing these groups from the safety of our laptops? Shouldn’t we be in there midst preaching “Christ crucified”?
    How do we “snatch others from the fire” (Jude 23) without getting close to the flames?

    I don’t have all the answers for these, but I hope to grow in wisdom through this process. Thanks for the post.

    • If God desires that none perish, but all come to repentance, how are we serving this purpose by bashing these groups from the safety of our laptops?

      Word choices such as those tell me you are not here for the right reasons. If you are here to cause problems please know right now that I use my delete key quite liberally.

  12. I’m here for the truth. Really. I’m not looking for a fight, just the opposite. Were my questions out of line? They come from a sincere heart to discern God’s will from His Word. I am for you and your website. Please forgive me if I overstepped with the laptop remark.
    My concern is that we see the problem (and I think those of us who enjoy this website see it clearly), but then react by retreating to a safe haven (the laptop remark). I’m not convinced that God’s Church is somehow dead and without remedy. I’m not convinced that we shouldn’t be contending for the faith right there in these churches.
    Acts 17:2-4 says, “As his custom was, Paul went into the synagogue, and on three Sabbath days he reasoned with them from the Scriptures, explaining and proving that the Christ had to suffer and rise from the dead. “This Jesus I am proclaiming to you is the Christ,” he said. Some of the Jews were persuaded and joined Paul and Silas, as did a large number of God-fearing Greeks and not a few prominent women.”
    What if we were in the local churches proclaiming this message? We may not all have an opportunity to speak to Joel Olsteen or Bill Johnson, but their followers are here in our towns. Do we really believe there isn’t enough common ground where we might find a platform to proclaim the truth?

    • Ok.
      Let’s do this. Instead of me answering these questions for you, (cuz they already have been in great detail here) get a concordance and your bible and begin to search things out. We all need to do this for ourselves.

      Begin with the concept of unity of the believers. What is the one thing they need to share in common and how is that established? The scrip you quoted Acts 17:2-4 makes some good points to go with. :)

      Everyone else – no one gets to answer his questions. Let’s work this out through hands on bible reading. Go David! :)

      As to the rest- I have approached pastors, friends, ministry partners. They did not believe me, they did not want to hear the truth, so I left their organizations and started this blog in an effort to warn others. This is not a safe haven, it is not easy, nor is it a place to hide. It is quite hard work that I could not do without the Lord. Just because I am not face to face with a person makes it no different to me. I am just as open and honest as I would be or could be. I am also better in written words than I am in spoken ones.

  13. My personal prayer for this whole thing (warning others about false teaching/practices) is not simply to warn of the evil, but to be sure to preach the truth to those who don’t have it. I believe you have the same goal.
    I will do this work on my own, but I thought I’d give a short list just to let you know I’m willing to do the work.

    Jesus prayed for us to be “brought to complete unity” so that the world would know the Father sent His Son and loved them as the Father loved the Son. John 17:23

    Paul prayed that God would give us a “spirit of unity” as we follow Christ. Rom. 15:5

    We are to make every effort to keep the unity of the Spirit through the bond of peace. Eph. 4:3

    God gifts some to prepare God’s people for works of service in order to build up the Body of Christ and we all reach unity in the faith and in the knowledge of the Son of God. Eph. 4:12-13

    Over all our Godly virtues, we are to “put on love”, which binds them in perfect unity. Col. 3:14

    Other verses:

    Ro 12:5 So we, being many, are one body in Christ, and every one members one of another.

    1Co 10:17 For we being many are one bread, and one body: for we are all partakers of that one bread.

    1Co 12:12 For as the body is one, and has many members, and all the members of that one body, being many, are one body: so also is Christ.

    Ga 3:28 There is neither Jew nor Greek, there is neither bond nor free, there is neither male nor female: for you are all one in Christ Jesus.

    1Co 1:10 Now I beseech you, brethren, by the name of our Lord Jesus Christ, that you all speak the same thing, and that there be no divisions among you; but that you be perfectly joined together in the same mind and in the same judgment.

    2Co 13:11 Finally, brethren, farewell. Be restored, be of good comfort, be of one mind, live in peace; and the God of love and peace shall be with you.

    Php 1:27 Only let your manner of life be as it becomes the gospel of Christ: that whether I come and see you, or else be absent, I may hear of your affairs, that you stand fast in one spirit, with one mind striving together for the faith of the gospel;

    Php 4:2 I urge Euodias, and urge Syntyche, that they be of the same mind in the Lord.

    Col 2:2 That their hearts might be comforted, being knit together in love, and unto all riches of the full assurance of understanding, to the acknowledgment of the mystery of God, and of the Father, and of Christ;

    1Pe 3:8 Finally, be all of one mind, having compassion one with another, love as brethren, be tender hearted, be courteous:

    1Jo 1:7 But if we walk in the light, as he is in the light, we have fellowship one with another, and the blood of Jesus Christ his Son cleanses us from all sin.

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