A fellow blogger, ex word of faith-er put this up on his blog. It is very much worth the time to read or to pass on (as he requests at the end of the article). I will add that anyone following the whole latter rain-kingdom now/dominion-manifest sons of god garbage which is also evident in the healing room ministries of Cal Pierce, and all those under NAR fall into this teaching. It does not have a foundation in the word of God! It is the foundational teaching of what I warn about here. We also see the comparison in the article I recently put up, No Sweat.
The Dangerous Teaching Methods Of Kenneth E Hagin (links to article and the blog of Junker Jorge)
I sat under the teaching of Kenneth Hagin for fourteen years. Over these years I read most of his writings, attended his school, sat in his classes and listened to hundreds of his sermons on both CD and tape.
Nothing in my experience as a Christian has damaged me more. I am not alone. Millions of others have been led a stray by this very popular and false teacher who has reproduced himself in other ministers such as Joel Osteen, Creflo Dollar, Mark Hankins, Frederick Price, Michael Murdock and Joyce Meyers.
His teachings are extremely dangerous because of four basic reasons:
1) He teaches Scripture out of context. He only uses Scripture to fit his doctrines and stories. Not reading Scripture in the context of which it was written is the fastest way into error.
2) Many of his writings were stolen from EW Kenyon. Kenneth Hagin plagiarized massive amounts of Kenyon’s writings. EW Kenyon started out as a Free Will Baptist, but became a passionate student of Christian Science and New Age teachings. He attended a New Age college and was seen at many lectures. He blended Christianity with New Age, Christian Science and Eastern Religion. Hagin then plagiarized these writings for years.
3) Kenneth Hagin also taught the Bible in light of the eight visitations that he claimed to have received from Jesus Christ. Joseph Smith also claimed extra revelations. Kenneth Hagin taught for decades, using his claimed visions to back up his spin on Scriptures. The Apostle Paul warned again ts this in the First Chapter of Galatians. Hagin taught on many things which are never taught in Scripture.
4) Kenneth Hagin claimed to be a Prophet and claimed to have been to Heaven where he received special revelation and instruction from Jesus. Kenneth Hagin would warn his students and followers with many horror stories and testimonies from those who would not receive him. This has resulted in thousands of honest and sincere Christians to become brainwashed and manipulated. The Word of Faith has become a dangerous cult that controls it’s members with spiritual intimidation and erroneous, manipulative teaching from Scripture that has been twisted out of its intended context.
If you know anyone that is caught up into this dangerous cult, then please paste this article and send it to them.
m'kayla's korner 
I did one year of Hagin’s franchised Rhema Bible College in 88. I turned off pretty quick and spent most of the year reading my Bible. What a waste of money, i could have read my Bible at home for free.
Yes, he used a lot of anecdotes and stories/testimonies which are supposed to prove that what he teaches is correct. Like, a guy starts tithing and within 6 mths is a wealthy man, can’t argue with that eh.
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I did his correspondence courses. yeesh.
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Last night we had our close brother from the village visit us, we often fellowship. We got talking about, What is deception?
Love not the world, neither the things that are in the world. If any man loves the world, the love of the Father is not in him. For all that is in the world, the lust of the flesh, and the lust of the eyes, and the pride of life, is not of the Father, but is of the world. And the world passes away, and the lust thereof: but he that does the will of God abides forever.
(1Jn 2:15-17)
These things have I written unto you concerning them that deceive you. But the anointing which you have received of him abides in you, and you need not that any man teach you: but as the same anointing teaches you of all things, and is truth, and is no lie, and even as it has taught you, you shall abide in him.
(1Jn 2:26-27)
We discussed that “error” is not so simple as error in school. Like , if you’re helping your child in study, and you point out any errors and correct them, it’s straightforward. Not so in spiritual or Kingdom matters, bcos it’s not merely a matter of having ones facts wrong, its a matter of a deceitful heart which causes one to believe wrong, and thus the above scriptures.
If one’s heart is set on SELF then that’s the filter thru which one reads scripture and bases ones beliefs upon and ones ‘ministry’ – upon themselves, their own desires, whether they are good or bad desires.
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This is precious Ian!
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So………….. someone like Hagin had his heart set on money, on living in luxury (which he openly claimed, he didnt hide it, he was proud of it) and from the start that was his presupposition – the frame of reference he brought with him to his Bible study, which would shape his beliefs. Therefore, he only saw what he wanted to see in the Bible, deceived by his own heart. Very common, we’ve all done that.
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Hmmm…I am thinkin’ of Jim Baker who confessed it was the misunderstanding of this scrip that messed him up – 3 John 2 Brothers I pray that you may prosper in all things and be in health, just as your soul prospers.
I think Junker Jorge has a better understanding of what was behind Hagin’s teachings. I know I have often heard him refer to the writings of EW Kenyon and that Hagin plagiarized and used those non biblical ideas to support the WOF. So, in that, there is a deliberate intent to deceive. I know in the ranks of charismania the bible is used to support their weird ideas and encounters, usually out of the o.t., and always out of true meaning and context. So again, it seems to be a deliberate work of deception. I know this sounds as though I am judging a person’s heart and I don’t mean to, but the stories and facts are out there in front of our eyes. It’s an act of free will on their part. So sad and so scary and avoidable. I have to wonder – didn’t anyone warn these guys???!!!???
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I did not know that M-K!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Wow Ian, I know the feeling, I blew a big chunk of change there too!
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But God has made it up to you eh John. His grace is sufficient. The Rhema i went to was in Australia, did you go to Tulsa?
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yes sir, Busted Arrow Oklahoma!
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“busted” certainly fits.
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Is this the Kenneth Hagin that was caught having affair (homosexual) and claims God has forgiven him. And he and his wife are starting over. And Oprah interviewed them. I just wondered if I have the right connection here. If so, the article was very interesting and well worth reading.
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Hi Sandra. I don’t think Oprah interviewed Hagin. Maybe you are thinking of Ted Haggard?
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Yep, your right I got them mixed up there. Honestly it’s hard to keep tabs of these people, that’s why its so important to keep up with this stuff. It was a very interesting article. Thanks again.
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I did a lot of reading about Ted, his family and church and even a similar story told by a pastor’s wife. One thing that stuck in my head and continues to is a comment made by someone in his church. Whether it was leadership or not, I can’t remember, but the comment was this – Had we been more discerning, we would have known. How horrifically true and what a warning to the church to get their eyes open to what is taking place. We do not want to be surprised when we find ourselves face to face with Almighty God and have that same thought run through our heads because we refused to take our part and pay attention. It will be too late.
I am glad you like the article. 🙂
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Was just wondering, does Junker Jorge admit that he was drawn to Hagin’s teaching bcos he had itching ears, bcos it appealed to his flesh? I’ll admit that, i got suckered bcos i was a sucker, there was still covetousness in my heart which answered to the WOF thing, too immature to know better. Not yet grounded in the Word of Truth.
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Yes, there are decievers and seducing spirits AND they can only decieve a born again saint if their heart is not right. I would have much more confidence in a person if they took full accountability for their actions and did not blame someone else. Yes, if a person’s heart is not right, even their reading/understanding of Scripture is wrong, that is, even without a false teacher they will be wrong.
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Yes, yes, the heart condition is so important!
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Yes, Ian. There is a time that we must take responsibility for our own failure, even when it was learned from another person. How else can repentance happen? It cannot.
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May i add that i believe that our LORD sovereignly allowed me to get tangled up in WOF when i was a new believer so that the real condition of my flesh, the deceitfulness of my own heart, would be revealed, and He did, and it was humiliating but good. He has ways of causing us to know our own selves.
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And the Lord knows who are His. He knows who is really after Him and who is only out for themselves. I believe it is true we can be deceived and we think we are doing or believing correctly. Those are the ones who will come out, the ones who want to know the truth regardless the personal cost or claim to fame.
It is because of His sovereignity. (is that a word?) It is part of the mystery that we in our finite minds can’t truly get around. But, God is God and His ways are not ours, but much higher. Something to celebrate and be thankful for!
I still have days that I have to wrestle with my mind on these things.
Thanks Ian.
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Greetings,
Ran across this a while back
Kenneth Hagin’s Forgotten Warning
By J. Lee Grady
Charisma Magazine
“…Hagin taught that God was not glorified by poverty and that preachers do not have to be poor. But before he died in 2003 and left his Rhema Bible Training Center in the hands of his son, Kenneth Hagin Jr., he summoned many of his colleagues to Tulsa to rebuke them for distorting his message. He was not happy that some of his followers were manipulating the Bible to support what he viewed as greed and selfish indulgence.
Those who were close to Hagin Sr. say he was passionate about correcting these abuses before he died. In fact, he wrote a brutally honest book to address his concerns. The Midas Touch was published in 2000, a year after the infamous Tulsa meeting.
Many Word-Faith ministers ignored the book. But in light of the recent controversy over prosperity doctrines, it might be a good idea to dust it off and read it again…
Hagin told his followers: ‘Overemphasizing or adding to what the Bible actually teaches invariably does more harm than good.’ If the man who pioneered the modern concept of biblical prosperity blew the whistle on his own movement, wouldn’t it make sense for us to listen to his admonition?”
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Mario, that’s very interesting. Thanks for you input. I does make sense to pose the question, why wouldn’t they listen, including his own son who seems to have continued in the footsteps of his father.
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Hi Mario, Fancy meeting you here brother!
I wasn’t aware that Hagin had sort of changed his mind prior to his death. He once said that if you don’t drive a luxury car it’s bcos you don’t have enough faith, and unwittingly accusing Jesus, the Apostles and anyone else of character, of not having enough faith.
Did he ask his followers to burn all his books? That would have been the right thing to do.
Then, there’s the infamous video of Hagin not long before he died, during the laughing revival, hissing like a snake, drunk and rolling around. I don’t know if he got delivered from those demons before he died.
But what would Lee Grady know about anything? he still prostitutes the Word for gain, and makes a profit off many false teachers.
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Hagin did not write that book, they just stuck his name on it, Tony Cooke is the one that did most of it
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yes Ian……….my wife had been exposed to HIV and some one gave me his book on healing
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I hope your wife is not sick! That is an awful disease for anyone to have!
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Hey Ian, just surfing and looking for good fellowship where the truth is upheld.
Stated,
“I…spent most of the year reading my Bible.”
Herein lies the problem with the majority of believers, they are biblically illiterate. In our church is a bank vice-president who told us of a seminar that the bank’s tellers were required to attend. At this seminar they were to be taught how to differentiate between real currency and the counterfeit. On the first day they were given the real currency and told to count it out into stacks, pick up the stacks and recount the currency into stacks again. They did this the whole day. On the following day, they were given the real currency again and told to repeat the exercise from the day before. One person spoke up and asked when they were to be introduced to the counterfeit currency. The seminar instructor said that that were to know the real to the point that when the counterfeit came into their hands, they would know so right away. Thus, we, as believers, need to know the scriptures so well that when whether listening to a teacher, our preacher, or reading litterature that is contrary to the Word of God we will know it.
“…they received the word with all readiness of mind, and searched the scriptures daily, whether those things were so” (Acts 17:11).
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I think God has done just about all He can do to expose the lies of WoF. What else can be done except to see with such obviousness it simply does not work. People get sick, they die, they suffer injury and loss – everyone everywhere. It is not a matter of a “spirit of ______, or curse of ______, or even a lack of _______”. It is a matter of reality and the fallen world we live in.
This is a good story Mario. I heard someone else explain that their pastor taught them how to understand and know how God speaks to His people. They went through the bible over and over and over until it was obvious to them. They could not be taken in by false teaches and prophets because thy knew the real thing. How precious a discipline.
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I agree Mario, and i even hesitate to comment on Hagin at all. It’s funny how online discussions can develop, sometimes i just want to draw attention to something that’s not true, not desiring to get deeply into a subject, but tend to get drawn in anyway. 🙂
On the knowing the true dollar bill so then we know the counterfeit, that’s certainly true, but i would never ever tell people “read the Bible so that you won’t be deceived”, cos even though it’s true, it puts the cart before the horse. That should never be the reason we read the Bible, eh, we should be worshippers of God, first. He is simply worthy. Love should be the reason.
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she is well, the test were negative after three years. Thanks
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Good news!
Did you see Ian’s question? I put in my 2cents worth, but it was really for you. 🙂
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Re: “I think God has done just about all He can do to expose the lies of WoF. What else can be done except to see with such obviousness it simply does not work. People get sick, they die, they suffer injury and loss – everyone everywhere. It is not a matter of a “spirit of ______, or curse of ______, or even a lack of _______”. It is a matter of reality and the fallen world we live in.”
This phrase means a lot, “it does not work”, bcos it reveals that WOF is a technique to get something from God, or to get God to act for you, which is essentially idolatry. All techniques, formulas, exercises, ‘follow these steps’, are idolatry, as God is a Person, a loving Father, not an idol.
Related to this, people are funny. As many think Calvin invented predestination, or Luther, justification, so they think that Hagin invented faith (yet another form of idolatry), which is amazingly blind. I know saints in India who’ve never heard of WOF, who believe in divine healing and health… how vital it is to trust God, that a double minded man will receive nothing from the LORD…
We’ve also seen non Spirit filled believers here who believe that everything that happens to them is God’s will. We’ve seen the devil do so much in some families, and they just resign it to God’s will, not standing by faith, not having a shield of faith which quenches all the fiery darts of the enemy. So, wisdom is required.
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which question? The itching ears?
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Yes, the itching ears one. hehe
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yes cause I thought my wife had HIV and I wanted to hear what I wanted to hear…..that Divine Healing was for everyone all the time.
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Interesting thread.
John, you must have been sooo relieved and thankful to the LORD when you found out that she was clear of it.
A question to any: How does a sick believer find out whether divine healing is for them, whether it is God’s will to heal them or not?
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Simple, when they are healed or when they are not. Jesus laid hands on the sick and they were healed instantly, no waiting or any of that other wof stuff. The focus in not in the healing, but in the One who gave us life. We suffer under sickness and disease, but maybe that is our walk. We are called to give glory to God regardless of the circumstances of our lives, whether it be illness or death of a loved one, or poverty, persecution, whatever comes. It is God who gives us the strength to endure and trust in Him, come what may. He knows. That is the one thing I said to Him when my daughter died – Lord You knew, You knew.
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Yes Im glad, but my daughter died of a brain tumor, and my son just had one removed.
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OOhh! Going through that with your son must have been hard, considering! How is he???
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Re: “Simple, when they are healed or when they are not.”
So, sick believers should seek healing, ask in faith, call for the elders to anoint them with oil and the prayer of faith will heal them? Yes, i agree. And, accept it when He doesn’t heal, yes indeed.
But it’s not so simple, IMO, bcos a person’s responsibility to believe can’t be excluded. There are two extremes, and both are wrong. The cessasionist extreme would be the stance where a person’s faith has nothing to do with it, that God is totally arbitrary in His decisions to heal, like a lottery.
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It’s liberating when we know that ‘our’ faith is a gift. If i don’t have the faith to believe for certain things then that’s ok with me, cos i can’t conjure up the faith, i’m relying on God for it. When God gives faith, certainly nothing is impossible.
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Like, in the ‘healing’ stage show circus we see on TV, if the person prayed for is not healed it is a major embarrassment to the evangelist, so normally they will pretend that the person is healed, even when they’re not, to save face. Which reveals a totally wrong understanding of faith. It is NEVER a glory to us whether or not God answers our prayers. If healing is actually from God, then it should make no difference to a person’s ‘prestige’ when God says ‘no’. But what we’re talking about here, in the ‘circus’ stage show paradigm, is the glory of man, not the glory of God.
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The issue of faith is one that has brought in many false ideas about what it really means. I can believe, or have faith, that God has the power to heal me, but that belief does not mean that He will. Many false teachers have twisted “faith” into a “force” that has the power. And when the faith thing doesn’t work they go on to the next lie, a curse has been put on the believer by themselves or someone else, or even a curse of another believer, a curse of a witch, because they are “always out to get us”. Or there hasn’t been the right kind of words spoken in repentance of a sin that has brought on the illness or caused it to linger. There is a generational curse from sin of their ancestors that has not been properly broken. They have believed the lie of the doctor’s report of the illness, rather than what God has to say about them. They have listened to the lie of the enemy in the presence of symptoms and have allowed the illness to take root. They have lost their healing or have not learned how to claim the healing. And the one that healing is incremental and they may need more prayer for the healing to manifest completely.
There are many possibilities to the false teachings and sick and dying people are sent on a tirade to find the right reason and bring healing. When people are led down this road they are brought into bondage. It is horrific to watch a person go through all of these man made possibilities and try to find the right reason. It is abusive. This is the so called prayer and healing ministry that I came out of that is in operation throughout the world under the guise of International Association of Healing Rooms. It is also used in many other ministries outside of the IAHR.
And yes, it is all to the glory of man – look at what I can do, I have the gift of healing! I have the right prayer, so listen to me, follow me, attend my training, buy my teachings! But, in reality, no one is healed and there is no glory at all, only shame because what has been done to God’s people and His word!
I believe divine healing is an act of God, not of man. And I will add to that, having learned some things since I left, that I do believe there is a lack of healing because there is a lack of true devotion to God. Healing in itself has not ceased, but many have lost the meaning and life of a true believer, rendering them “powerless” against the forces of darkness.
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Ian, did you post somewhere else a while back on this topic? I seem to remember a post about if healing is part of the atonement and you(?) posted that it isn’t, because people were healed before the new covenant. The post said something about how we ask for healing because of our relationship with God… versus demanding it out of our rights in the atonement… or something to that effect. Sorry if I have you mixed up with someone else, but I’ve tried to remember where I read that cuz I wanted to read it again. And since the subject is up here, thought I’d ask.
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I have to say, whoever said it, good point! Thanks ruthsongs – it made me think on that!
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Hi Ruth, here is the link:
Simply, Christ died for the sin of all. God commands ALL to repent and believe the gospel. This means that justification/forgiveness and eternal life is only a prayer away for anybody, no matter what condition they are in. God requires that they believe, and anything less is sin. BUT, faith for divine healing can’t possibly be the same as faith for salvation. If a person refuses to believe Christ shed His blood for them, their unbelief is an act of rebellion and extreme unthankfulness. God sees any unbelief regarding His free gift of grace as rebellion. But if you don’t have faith for a miracle does God see it as rebellion? Certainly not. AND, if we make healing equal in the atonement with forgiveness of sins, then it would be sin to be sick, bcos you would be unbelieving, right? Which is sin.
Healing flows from the atonement for sin. Sin was the problem. Sin was atoned for, not sickness. Yet, ANYTHING which comes from God today comes VIA His atonement on Calvary. amen.
God promised health to the Israelites if they would obey Him [Deut 28 and several other passages], and this also should be believed today. He also promised wealth. Jesus promised God’s provision to us.. seek first the Kingdom and all these things shall be added. These are clear promises we need to believe.
Jesus never got sick bcos He was/is sinless. I’m diverging a bit here, but it’s worth considering where sickness originally comes from.
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Salvation is a gift to all, it is THE gift, the gift of The Son, that’s why it’s not mentioned in the gifts of the Spirit, 1 Cor. 12. Healing is also a gift, yet, unlike salvation, there is a “gift of healing”. This means it is a provision separate from salvation, as all the other gifts are.
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re: “Many false teachers have twisted “faith” into a “force” that has the power.”
THAT’S IT! That’s idolatry when God becomes an impersonal force one taps into or ‘applies’ or dispenses.
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Yes, it is idolatry. Many chase after “the gift” even they don’t think they do. They covet it as though the ability to heal the sick or raise the dead means something about who they are. Wrong, wrong.
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well I am a staunch five point Calvinist and Cessationist. But I am a firm believer in soul winning and I do always ask for healing though I hardly see any results.
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What scriptures do you base your cessationist belief on? I did some reading on this but I couldn’t agree with their conclusions. I am more inclined to think we don’t see the gifts including healing because we have become so contaminated with the world that we don’t operate in the Spirit the way we should. I am also pretty dense as to what a Calvinist is, exactly.
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I would just have to send you some links, Im not a scholar that can easily explain. But, I have been to remote ares of the world among primitive and sincere believers, and I saw no miracles there. I’ll send ya a link or two………….but not to sway anyone either way. Happy T Day M-K
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Hi John,
There’s several variations of ‘cessasionism’. Like, i would be a partial cessasionist bcos i believe some things did cease when the Apostles died. Like, Paul said that any gospel other than his is false. Nothing can be added to God’s Word which came thru the Apostles. Similarly, then, THAT particular function of the Apostles (to bring the Canon of Scripture) ceased when their ministries ceased, and therefore also, there would not be apostles today who have exactly the same authority that the original ones had.
On miracles. Surely you believe that they are possible today?
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The day I see an amputee healed instantly or a downs syndrome healed instantly, from only prayer, I will believe in the gifts for today
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Thanks for the link, Ian. I’ll be reading that and sorting through some things for myself. I think I found the orig thread I remembered at ETPW. Like you, I have been healed by the Lord, experienced divine protection, and seen others healed. But it has always been for me something that just came out of Who God is. Not some legal right I demanded. Likewise I have seen people not get healed and even one friend sick with cancer who came to a point where she didn’t want to fight it anymore and, for lack of a better word, ‘decided’ to go home to be with the Lord.
The healing “thing” is big, and I’ll be spending some time in prayer/study on the comments made.
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ruthsongs, I am thankful for your testimony to the grace and sovereignty of the Lord. Praise God! 🙂
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Like Thomas, unless i see i won’t believe?
We, like so many others, have seen countless answers to prayer, healings which are supernatural, not the normal natural healing of the body. Are we deluded to believe that the Father answered our prayers? For me, to deny all those answers to prayer, would be as bad as homosexuality or murder, it would be wicked unbelief.
Aren’t ‘small miracles’ really a test for Christians? When they can’t see the hand of God in a ‘small healing’ or a ‘small miracle’ then surely they won’t believe when anything ‘spectacular’ happens before their eyes.
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I think there’s a reason for God withholding, at times, the ‘spectacular’ miracles. I believe the spiritual person will understand.
We don’t classify ANYTHING that the Father does as ‘spectacular’ or ‘less spectacular’ ; major or minor miracles. We try to appreciate and acknowledge EVERY expression of His grace and power, as equal, as it flows from Him.
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I agree God heals through His will and medicine, but there are no bible like miracles today. When Jesus and the disciples healed, they healed everything on the spot. even the maimed. They didnt send them off for chemo (:
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And those who go to chemo and are found in remission considered “healed”. No. remission is not healing, no way. But healing ministries will call it that so they can chalk it up to another of their numbers in success stories. ugh. On the other hand IAHR discounts doctors and medicine, Cal Pierce speaks of doctors as tho they are idots, much like C Peter Wagner speaks of pastors. The pride of some!
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True. Everything He does is good and perfect. Sometimes the small gestures that assure me He is watching over us are the ones that so deeply touch my heart. Comfort in times of pain. Patience in times of trial. The little things that remind us how completely He knows us.
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Daniel, I don’t think you understand what takes place in my blog and the reasons I have had for speaking against false teachers and teachings. But, it is nothing like you have accused me, or my contributors of. There is no truth in your conclusions. Nor is there room in my blog for words such as yours, therefore they have gone to cyberspace.
If you would like to pose a question or debate with us why you think we are wrong – scripturally – you are more than welcome to do that. But I will not post emotional tantrums here. Call it what you like, censorship, fear, whatever. The fact remains it is my blog and those are my rules. Your words have gone way past any boundary I have seen this far. What is it to you how I, or if I, or those who come here truly fulfill the great commission anyway? That is not the point, nor is it up for you to decide.
I expose false teaching. Open your bible and you will do the same.
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Couln’t help but read u expose false teaching but allow it on ur site. Ian’s take on tithing is totally bogus. What hypocrisy. U say u expose lies. Can u prove Hagin lied? Who made you judge?
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John Dempsey, I don’t allow false teaching on my site. I agree that “tithing – 10%” of your income is o.t. teaching and is replaced by the new covenant of giving which does not specify the amount. I also know that tithing was not money! There is no hypocrisy taking place. If you don’t agree, say so, say why – whatever but I don’t see where there has been scripture twisting taking place in what Ian stated.
As far as the article on Hagin, I did not write is as is pointed out. Who made any of us judge? God. Read the bible, we are to expose false teachers and prophets. The claims of Hagin cannot be proved true by the teaching of the word.
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John,
Back in 1987 i used to react the same way as you when i heard anyone question Kenneth Hagin. I was under a spell, bcos his teaching appealed to my selfish desires, i was willfully deceived.
You ask “who made you judge?” Are you judging anyone here?
John 7:24 Judge not according to the appearance, but judge righteous judgment.
On NT tithing, give one reference where it was ever commanded or an example where it was practised in the NT.
If God expected NT believers to tithe, the was not Paul very negligent to not mention it? He mentioned free giving a lot but never tithing.
But back to Hagin, and his type: He got rich by milking naive Christians, by merchandising the things of God. The 1st century church would have thrown him out. None of them tolerated such stuff. Yes, today it is normal, but back then it was wicked.
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Good comments Ian, I totally agree
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Ian, sir, I love you dearly as a brother in the Lord, but your doctrine is amiss, and you entrap others to believe this misguided theology. As Mkayla stated, I have to expose false teaching where I see it. As Paul said, “All Scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness, that the man of God may be complete, thoroughly equipped for every good work” (2 Tim. 3:16-17).
Therefore, I give you proper doctrine (or instruct) you in the word of God, give reproof (test what you are saying), correct your misstated words (restoring to right state the meaning of the word), and instruct you in hermeneutics (rightly dividing the word of truth).
You, sir, play a dangerous game by implying that Christians are only to live by the New Testament (you made this claim that Christ and apostles are our ONLY examples). No, even Annanias and Sapphira ARE examples of what NOT to do!
Don’t mince your words and make them as doctrine or else you err with the Pharisees, “Well hath Esaias prophesied of you hypocrites, as it is written, This people honoureth me with [their] lips, but their heart is far from me. Howbeit in vain do they worship me, teaching [for] doctrines the commandments of men. For laying aside the commandment of God, ye hold the tradition of men, [as] the washing of pots and cups: and many other such like things ye do” (Mark 7:6-8).
I have to address your take with tithing also. The act of tithing was an act of faith instituted by Abraham over 400 years before the Law of Moses (OT) was given to mankind. Do you not see that practices established in faith supercede the law? Or do you not heed the words of the APOSTLES PAUL, JAMES, and author of HEBREWS? They all speak of the FAITH of Abraham. He did it out of love for God. Now, Malachi chapter 3 has God talking to the Jews about robbing him of tithes and offerings? IF the giving of TITHES AND OFFERINGS is of great importance to God (so his people have things to eat and wear in the body of Christ), then how can YOU determine that giving tithes is of the past under the OT? TITHING was BEFORE the OT and exists AFTERWARDS IN THE NT?
Didn’t Jesus address tithing to the Pharisees? He said that they tithed down to the last mint leaf and “pass over judgment and the love of God: these ought ye to have done, and not to leave the other undone” (Luke 11:42). If tithing was something that Jesus would have frowned upon and said was done away with, he would have stopped there and told them not to continue tithing. O ye of little faith!
Hey, if you want to settle for the level you are on in Christ, then by all means stay there and enjoy the limitation of blessing that comes there. Otherwise, open your heart a little more and let God take you higher in him from glory to glory. This goes for any and all who think this.
Tithing isn’t about paying the preacher or any pastor or church staff. It is a matter of faith that you give back to God a portion of what he’s given you in order that YOU may grow in him. It is an act of worship to God. Anyone who thinks that tithing is bogus needs to examine their heart and level of faith in God.
Remember that faith without works is dead! (James 2:26). It is impossible to please God without faith (Heb. 11:6). Yes we are saved by grace through FAITH and justified by FAITH and WORKS! There is no legalism here. When you are made a new creature in Christ, you now have the mind of Christ. You are to think on things above not earthly things.
Ian, do you know why Jesus didn’t give tithes? He DIDN’T grow anything or receive payment for teaching/preaching. If he had, he would have for two reasons: (1) he would have set the example for us to follow as an act of worship to God as had Abraham and (2) it was governed by the Mosaic Law.
May the God of peace bless you all and open the blind eyes and deaf ears to hear and see the truth of the word. Ciao.
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James, I won’t repeat what I’ve already outlined on the pentecostal topic. But I will remind you to tread lightly. I do not appreciate a comment of “dearly loved” followed by such an open display of pride.
We can debate the meaning of the scriptures without the assumption of a person’s heart condition. We all learn from each other on this blog, or at least we try to. I will not have that compromised because someone wants to vent their frustration and anger. There will be no biting or devouring of the brethren here – period.
Thank you for your cooperation.
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James, the first 4 paragraphs of your comment don’t mean much. The way they are written seem like an attack. What are you referring to exactly?
>>Ian, sir, I love you dearly as a brother in the Lord, but your doctrine is amiss, and you entrap others to believe this misguided theology. As Mkayla stated, I have to expose false teaching where I see it. As Paul said, “All Scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness, that the man of God may be complete, thoroughly equipped for every good work” (2 Tim. 3:16-17).
Therefore, I give you proper doctrine (or instruct) you in the word of God, give reproof (test what you are saying), correct your misstated words (restoring to right state the meaning of the word), and instruct you in hermeneutics (rightly dividing the word of truth).
You, sir, play a dangerous game by implying that Christians are only to live by the New Testament (you made this claim that Christ and apostles are our ONLY examples). No, even Annanias and Sapphira ARE examples of what NOT to do!
Don’t mince your words and make them as doctrine or else you err with the Pharisees, “Well hath Esaias prophesied of you hypocrites, as it is written, This people honoureth me with [their] lips, but their heart is far from me. Howbeit in vain do they worship me, teaching [for] doctrines the commandments of men. For laying aside the commandment of God, ye hold the tradition of men, [as] the washing of pots and cups: and many other such like things ye do” (Mark 7:6-8).>>
Additionally, conversation based on tithing on this topic was the way Ken Hagin taught it. What do you have to contribute to that end?
Thanks
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James you said –
<<Tithing isn’t about paying the preacher or any pastor or church staff. It is a matter of faith that you give back to God a portion of what he’s given you in order that YOU may grow in him. It is an act of worship to God. Anyone who thinks that tithing is bogus needs to examine their heart and level of faith in God…
Agreed, it is not a matter of giving to a person or church, etc. but it has been twisted and taught exactly that way!!! That is what we are debating here.
Tithing does not cause a believer to grow. Where do you see that in the word?
We are debating the 10% law (tithe), NOT giving from the heart out of compassion. They are two separate things.
Teachers like Hagin from the word of faith taught the 10% and more. They teach give to get it back. I've heard others claim a "first fruits" giving which is a calculated 10% annual figure given as a one lump sum in January for the projected year. It's a lie and there is no arguing that.
These liars are out for cold hard cash so that they can live lives of luxury, to been seen by others as elitist of God, while those who strive to give to meet their demands live in poverty and fear of what will happen if they don't give or don't have the "faith" to give. Lies!
This is the exposed false teaching! This is what we are talking about, again – this has nothing to do with the n.t. call to give out of compassion for the needy, the lost the hungry – does it?
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James, you asked in a comment Nov 30th if I can prove Ken Hagin lied. I just did. Additionally, he claimed many visitations from Jesus. Where in the word does it say that Jesus steps out of heaven and visits people? Doesn’t it instead say that Jesus went back into heaven and is seated at the right hand of the Father? Does it say that he visits us? Doesn’t it say when you hear others say “here He is, or He is there”, to not listen?? We are given the indwelling of the Holy Spirit to lead us, to teach us – not visitations. So, there is another lie exposed.
This article was written as a testimony from someone who is an x word of faith preacher. He wrote it and his blog so that others will be aware of the dangerous false teaching this man is so well known for. A testimony is a way to learn from someone else’s experience, someone who knows something that maybe you yourself do not.
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I used to tithe for about one year after i was born again, bcos that’s what we were taught to do, but as i read the NT i found that the NT church did not tithe, and that made up my mind. Same with so many things, when i found out they were not practiced by the Apostles, who are our examples, and were instituted by apostates, i stopped doing it, eg. christmas, easter, institutionalized church and organizations, “clergy”- professional priesthood, following traditions, traditional church ‘worship service’, calling buildings ‘churches’, merchandizing the things of God…………………..
Actually probably the main reason for apostasy in christendom is the fact that people are trying to build an OT ‘church’, and not a NT church. Whenever you witness traditions and rituals you are seeing the OT, not the NT. It’s not the Kingdom of God.
Hagin became a joke in his latter years. Visiting someone’s house i picked up his magazine, a few years before he died, and nearly every page had a large photo of him, in different poses as he was ‘ministering’ (the performance on the stage, that’s the ‘ministering’), i thought, the guy is so in love with himself, no wonder his teaching is false, bcos he has no foundation. You can’t be in love with yourself AND be in love with Jesus, impossible.
To James Fleming, no comment.
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Pingback: Word of Faith No More « m'kayla's korner
The act of tithing was an act of faith instituted by Abraham over 400 years before the Law of Moses (OT) was given to mankind. Do you not see that practices established in faith supercede the law?
I’ve seen this used to justify tithing; but, this is not correct. Abraham gave 10% of war spoils to Melchizedek; but he give the balance — 90% — to a the King of Sodom, a pagan [Hebrews 7:4 / Genesis 14:18-24]. The text never says he continued to give 10% of his ‘increase’ to anyone.
See Dr. Russell Kelly on tithing and why it’s not NT doctrine:
http://www.tithing-russkelly.com/
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I did not read all the comments; and, I see that this was at least touched on; but, I wanted to make sure the following is made clear:
One of the basic tenets of Word of Faith is the belief that faith is a force and that God used this same force of faith when He spoke the world into existence. This same ‘faith force’ is available to all believers who then have the ability to ‘speak’ things into existence. Further, so the false teaching goes, when an individual declares something then God MUST obey since ‘faith’ is considered an immutable Law. This is an attempt at manipulation God and is nothing short of witchcraft.
This teaching contradicts itself when one fully thinks out the implications because it assumes that either:
1) Faith as a force predated God; and, hence God did not create it. If this is so, who did?
2) This ‘force of faith’ was created by God, yet God is powerless to stop anyone from manipulating it toward his/her own end. This points to a god that is not omniscient: “Ooops! Did I do that?!”
See here (although this is not complete):
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Word_of_Faith
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Hi Craig. I believe most of us – if not all – who walked out of WOF understand what it truly is.
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M’Kayla,
I did not mean to make it sound as though those who were immersed with WoF and came out of it didn’t understand the above. I only wanted to show other readers who truly do not understand or know much about WoF that this is one of the basic tenets.
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Oh, that’s fine. The author, Junker Jorge does lots of writing/exposing that on his blog. 🙂
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Kenneth Hagin is a great man of God , he led no one astray.pls get your tinking right.
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The proof of the opposite is in his teachings. They are clearly not biblical.
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I used to listen to Ken Hagin a long time ago. Like most of you, I decided he was materialistic and misled. I was not aware he died. Does anyone have any info on that? Or a link? Thanks mkayla for posting the Junker Jorge article.
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Truly this strange teaching isn’t from God.
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I am amazed Why did it take this man 14 years to come to this conclusion?
All I can say is does his God have limits? Is there anything he can’t do? I was personally healed of 4thstage Cancer – I’ve had so many miracles in my life that I have NO DOUBT that God is guilty of everything Ken Hagin and all the others are accusing Him of and we’re a wonderfully loving forgiving free bunch of people who believ the Word as the word of God. And have All our needs met according to His riches in glory bt Christ Jesus whom we love and respect
What a pity you never lost your prejudices May you expierience the love of God in your life today He is as wonderful as they profess God bless you
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cynthia, you are confused. The article is addressing the FALSE teaching of Ken Hagin and the things witnessed while under that teaching. This is not to say that God does not heal, do the miraculous or take care of those who are committed to Him. Believe me, there is no prejudice in judging rightly.
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Mkayla.. If u are speaking of Kenneth Hagin Jr . Or Sr. Over Rhema… U are sadly deceived to think or speak any evil of this ministry. Every seed u plant… Will produce that fruit.. & i pray no evil overtakes u. This man was nothing but annointed by God.
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Sonya Burks, if that be true please show me where in the word of God the claims, teachings and pracices of Hagin can be found…
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Sonya Burks,
I sat under those who learned straight from Ken Hagin (Sr.). They called him “dad” Hagin and sometimes “brother”. I hope that I am planting a seed for you in my response, and I pray that God will open your eyes. Either way:
In second Timothy 3:1-6 we are warned of what things will be like in the final days of the church. At the end, Paul sums it up by saying that people will have a form of godliness, but deny its power. He then exhorts us to have nothing to do with them.
It is easy to see a denial of God’s power and the power of His Holy Word in certain churches. They believe that God “doesn’t do miracles anymore”. They don’t understand or make any effort to participate in the divine nature in a process of escaping the corruption in the world caused by evil desires. (2 Peter 1). So every form of evil, hatred and sin runs rampant in them. They have fallen off the narrow road of Truth.
Then there is the “gospel” of Ken Hagen (sr.), which is no gospel at all. A “god” is preached in the word-faith churches which denies the true power of God directly and fatally. The “god” of the word-faith church can’t do anything for you unless you ask. So, now salvation hinges on a person’s ability to “ask”. This is a powerless “god”, Sonya. Those who follow it have fallen off the narrow road of Truth. According to Ken Hagin, “god” wants to help people, but they don’t know how to ask. (They perish for lack of knowledge….does that sound familiar? If you study the actual scripture in context and in prayer, you will see how it has been twisted.) If this were true (that “god” could do nothing for me unless I ask), there would be no salvation for man. Btw, this “god” also wants to prosper you financially…but you have to give 10% first.
I don’t know a “god” who wants my measly 10%, but I do know the True and Only God through Jesus Christ who wants everything I have…heart, mind, soul and strength. If you want a “god” who responds only to your asking, God will turn you over to it. See if you can “ask” correctly enough. That is spiritual bondange and of the devil. It is a thing to be repented.
Peace comes through knowing a LORD and SAVIOR in Jesus Christ who has all authority in Heaven and Earth given to HIm. (Matt 28:18) God will judge Ken Hagin’s annointing. I have witness to just how rotten the fruit is.
I didn’t ask God to make the sun come up this morning, and yet there was the most beautiful sunrise out my window gently waking me up. I didn’t ask God to paint the trees yellow and red (I thought with how dry it was they would just shrivel brown and fall off), and yet I sit looking out a window at a brilliant display of color. I didn’t ask God to save me from the pit of false teachings that I had stumbled into. As I was thanking and praising Him for sending me to such a loving and amazing church, He pushed me away from it with force. He then patiently and gently corrected me through His Holy Spirit and His Holy Word. I serve and awesome and all-powerful God, and there is nothing impossible with Him.
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This is pure nonsense. The same man you accused of these evils has been used by God to help millions of people find salvation, healing, stability, marital fulfillment, Joy, Peace, promotion and eternal life in Christ.
You claim to have been with him these many years yet you didn’t encounter the Lord he taught about. This is actually what happens when offense is given room in our heart.
I am not surprised about people like you cause they’ve always been around true men of God. Remember Gehazi and Elisha, Demas and Paul, even Judas and the Lord Jesus?
My family and I are better believers in Christ today because of the faith based teachings of Kenneth E Hagin.
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I didn’t write this article –
I keep asking for someone who supports Hagin to show me where in the bible we can find his claims, teaching, notions, prophecies, experiences, etc…I studied under him for some time, and even thought for a great number of years he was right on the money. I found out differently simply by comparing his stuff to the word of God. People come here and defend his name yet can’t give me one scripture – in context – that claims the things he did. I guess it is hard finding out your most beloved bible teacher stole writings from a new age teacher and sold those lies as truth.
—
And so here we are – –
Until I get some real conversation and some good bible references to prove wrong these claims, I flat out refuse to post another in-Hagin-defense comment. So, don’t waste your time typing anything unless you can do this because I have only one button to push for the trash can. And trash it, I will.
Thanks everyone for your cooperation.
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The “fruits” of Kenneth Hagin’s ministry:
Enough said!
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Recently my wife and I left the word of faith church that we were there for 16 yrs. Originally the reason we started going there we wanted to know more about faith. Our pastor was a close friend and we went everywhere togeather. Surely he would not lead us astray? It seemed feasable what he taught would work because he used certain scriptures in the bible but there was one small word that he left out.
The word was if. And then when he said jesus went to hell 3 days to the region of the damn to be tortured by satan and his demons to finish paying for our salvation and was bornagain we couldnt believe what we was hearing. What kind of faith was this? I always thought that the shed blood of jesus was what was the only requirement for my salvation. And to find out that Jesus was merely mortal astounded me. It went on and on for 16 years. Everytime new revelation would come weather from rehma or this evangilst or what ever he heard he treated it like gospel. I tried to compromise some of my belief but it would not wash. I also heard that I was a little god from kenneth copeland the self procaimed profit. And I heard I could have what I said By charles capps. To day the leberty I once had in Christ is returning. Praise the Lord.
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The false doctrines that I spoke of originated from E.W. Kenyon and then followed by the granddady of word of faith Kenneth Hagin and passed on to Copeland and Spread out throughout our land.
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Glad you guys are out of that mess. Who knows how many these people have damaged and led away from the purity of the faith and the gospel with their grandiose lies…I wonder if they think they are rich enough yet.
We just keep praying for the lost – and praising God for people when they do come out, like you! Yay! If there is anything further you would like to share, please feel free.
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Thank-you for allowing us to post . The more we got into the word of faith the more we became trapped in a docrine of herisy. Oh it didnt start that way biut because we were in such a small church it truly was hurtful because we had built up relationships. The odd thing about it is the churches as a whole in our area new nothing about the word of faith. We went to tulsa and was introduced to our pastors friends. All of whom were highup in the faith movement. At that time he lived there and was involved in the fcf mother church. It seemed like they had it all togeater. We visited Rehma campus, winter reteats, Christmas lights at remha and even made a tape with our annointed music on it. Our pastors wife was a personal friend of kenneth hagins daughter Patsy. One of the time on one of the retreats they took up a offering at Rema chuch. The Students ran up and threw money on the platform.. They used a big brome and swept it up and put it in big buckets. I feel sorry for the Pastor and our friends that our left there but like the five wise virgins we left that place and we are praying for them and all people who are trapped in all cults. Thank-you.
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I must say that Jesus is the true healer. Just because the wof movement has brought about so many phoneys and in it for the wrong reason doesnt mean that it diminishes the word. If you read about the people that were healed in the new testimate you would realize that their faith they had was strictly in Jesus not the manifestations. That may have drawn them but he still is the healer. God still is in the buisness of blessing. He still gives revelation through his word, And his retirement is stupendous.
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KH.-a.k.a. “Dad Hagin Father of the word of faith. Intellectual property theft Kenneth Hagin has been proven to be a plagairist. A plagiarist is someone who steals anorther persons writings and fails to acknowledge the original authur of the work D.R. Mcconnell proved beyond any shadow of dought that Hagin stole of this theology from E.W. Kenyon, the true Father of the word of faith movement. In his most excellent book ” A different Gospell” It seem DadHagin also stole about 75% of John A. Macmillans book entitled ” The Authority of the beleiver.” written in 1932. This thief was discovered by dale Simmons while working on a paper at O.R.U. Hagin was confronted about this theft and made few changes in subsequent editions of that book. He has never publicly admitted to stealing anything from Kenyon. It gets stranger! Hagin has also made the claim to have had no less than eight personal face to face fisits with Lord Jesus Christ. His book “I beleive in Visions” makes this statement on the cover: The fascinating personal story of a man whose life an ministry have been dramaticlly influenced by visions of Jesus”
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makayla I want to thank you for the patience you have. Their is hundreds of thousands of people that are trapped by the word of faith preachers. Very few people do not have enough guts to even give their full name on blogs but I do because I want the devil to know that I mean business. The false teachers who are tied up in the word of faith big lie are tied up in big money. And if they dont have big money then they want to have a big money and ministry. Isnt it odd that when Jesus was on the cross only a few people were their to give him support. Not even the people that he healed stood behind him. Sometimes we feel like people arent listening to us but they are. Justin peters said that he just was in a Jessi Dupplantis meeting and Jesse took up a offering and said that what ever you give god will give you a hundred fold. Doesnt it make sense that he should give all that he has and god will give him a hundred fold?
Why he will be an instant billionare. People are so hungry today but they will never find it in the word of faith. They will only find it in the true gospell. Keep the faith makayla.
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Thanks Tracy. I don’t know that I am actually patient. LOL. You probably noticed that I requested scriptural proof in any future comments supporting Hagin. Since that request there have been several responses, none with supporting scripture, all condemning me for speaking against such a man of God, etc. As promised, they went into the trash.
You are correct. Nothing in the word of faith theology makes a bit of sense, and the bottom line is a doctrine based on fear, pride and greed. I never wrote the article, but I was able to trace wof to other beliefs outside of Christianity. Not being the first person to do it, the truth is out there. Of course, it’s in the bible, but one needs to spend time there instead of on the floor laughing and jerking like an insane animal.
“I am the LORD your God, who brought you out of the land of Egypt, out of the house of slavery. “You shall have no other gods before Me. Exodus 20:2-3
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I know what you mean about Hagenites not backing their doctrine with the word of God. In the last month sense we left the word of faith church we have ran into a few of church members. We were unable to talk to them about what we have learned about the word of faith doctrine how false it is. They really ignored us. Our pastor also beleives in arianism. He was a former Jehova witness so this fits right in his sceme of things. The week before we left our pastor had two fist fights with his son n law and got a black eye. That was the last straw so we left. My wife didnt want to change but she finally agreed with me. Lets go! Im sure that there are people like us where one mate wanted to stay and the other one wanted to leave. But if you are going to a church where they are blatant what they teach and have false doctrine like what hagin taught its better to leave now than to wait 16yrs. like we did. God bless you Mkayla .
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Today our pastor called us up to wish us a Happythanksgiving. I Remember we spent so many thanksgivings togeather and this is one the first we have been apart. He is 73 and we are in are early 60s. When I answered the call it said on the caller I.D. It was him. I had a choice to answer it or not. I choice to answer it. It was just like it always was. Love between us or was it. I felt the Holyspirit just like it was when we were going to church. Why did I fell the love of God. Was it comeing from him. God revealed to me it was the love of god revealed to me. But why was that. Am I suppose to hate him because of the word of faith doctrine and what it has stole from me. No! Abolutely not. There is a bond between the Holy Ghost and you that can never be broken. I want the best for my pastor and so does God. Prayer really works and we have the full truth and we must show all people including muslims and so on that God is a god of grace as will as a god that hates sin. This thanks-giving day remember what this holiday is truly about. Thank-you Mkayla.
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Very good points made there Tracy! Thank YOU. 🙂
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Bessie there is one difference between Hagin and Paul. Paul wrote a good share of the new testimate and was of the truth Kenneth Hagen was a false teacher and time again deceived people with false words. Kenneth Hagen was enemy of the cross because he said the cross was not enough to give us our salvation but Jesus died spirtual and had to be bornagain in hell. If you can prove that in the word I will come over to your side. Why do you want to discount Gods word for a person who truly is taken over by an evil spirits. A doctrine of devils who will lead them to there spirituall death. There is so much out their that has already been debunked of kenneth hagen So the next time you accuse someone of something get your facts straight.
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Everytime we give weather it is tithing, alms, taking a pie to your neighbor as long as you give in the right heart god puts it on your account. It is not a law but an example. Jesus tithed because he fufilled all scriptures. He was a nazerite and took many vows. He was totally sold out to the father. Abraham tithed to mechzneck. Jesus Christ was after the order of mechzneck. When we tithe in essence we are showing that we are giving to alive priest. He is not dead but alive. I personaly give according what I have puposed in my heart. It goes beyond tithing because the holy spirit directs me but unfortunately I havent always listened. If we could give 1% what christ did we would be rich. The Bible says layup treasures in heaven and he has provided a way to do it. let me read a scripture from the new testimate.Math. 23:23. Woe unt you, scribes and pharisees, hyocrites! for ye pay tithe of mint and anise and cummin, and have omitted the weightier matters of the law, judgment , mercy, and faith:these ought ye to have done and not left the other undone. Anorther word he taught that it was more important to have judgement mercy and faith but also not to leave tithe out.
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Tracy, tithing in the sense of Word of Faith makes the receiver, usually the one who is doing all the scripture twisting, rich. Tithing, as it is, was set up so that others would have plenty, not so that a few liars could buy expensive houses, jets and extravagant vacations. The Pharisees were reprimanded by the Lord for the same things we see WOF preachers doing, keeping people from the truth found in the word of God. They themselves do not enter and prevent others from the same. Why? Because they like the honor of men, they like the good ol boy pats on the back, the name recognition, the need for security when they travel and not because they are walking in truth, but because they are like dead men walking, dried up, white washed tombs, having nothing of true value in themselves from a spiritual standpoint and therefore having nothing to offer others.
I have a little problem with some of your statements because they sound wof-ish. We don’t have “accounts” with God, we owe him our lives for sending Christ to die in our sinful place! Jesus wasn’t “sold out” to God, Jesus IS God. The treasures we lay up in heaven, have no relation to what is considered treasured here on earth. You said if we could give 1% of what Christ did we would be rich. Christ gave His life so that we could live forever, something that no man could ever do.
So, yes, if you are so moved by the Holy Spirit to give, then do so. But be aware He will never have us give to a false messiah’s cause. Never. Give pie? Heck yeah! I like pie.
Be well. And thanks for the conversation! 🙂
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I totally agree with everything you said. All the time we went to the word of faith church. 16 yrs. by the way we were third class citizen because we couldnt tithe all the time. It was very demeaning. What does god need our money for anyway. I am a paint contractor so it alway never came in on a regular basis. So it seemed that I could not give like I wanted to. But I did give all my gold rings diamond rings expensive watches away and he more than excepted that. Was the reason I had financal problems because I was not faithful? Ive struggled with alot of guilt but Im working threw it. There is always two sides to every sitution. Thanks for the encouragement.
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Matthew 5:45 He causes His sun to rise on the evil and the good, and sends rain on the righteous and the unrighteous (this scripture is speaking of loving enemies, but there is a fact there.) Besides of which I ask myself that same question all the time. But the truth is, we go through things for an opportunity to know God better. There is a choice to be made there. I see all kinds of great and exciting things happening in the lives of unbelievers that do not happen in mine. It is a lesson I learn over every single time cuz I’m hard headed that way – that I am more blessed to know the Lord and to be accepted by Him, forgiven by Him than to have all the glitz the world can offer. It can be a hard road to walk, but one we can be on penniless and still be of value.
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There is also the “promise” that comes with the WOF teachings: you give 10% and God will prosper you in all things. The only book I received for free from the WOF church discussed the importance of a literal tithe which laid out everything God would be bound to do for you because of your “obedience”. I met a woman who was in complete frustration with this. Her husband had finally agreed to tithe. She was expecting great things to happen. Instead her business was failing and she was faced with laying off employees and all sorts of other bad things. She just was in complete disbelief (and angry with God) that God wasn’t prospering them after they had finally started to tithe. YIKES! I’ve also witnessed people “looking” for the return to everything that they give. That thought process shows something amiss.
We give, because God gives us opportunities to give and moves our hearts to do so. All our giving is fithy rags before a Holy God. We CAN’T give enough to earn ANYTHING from Him.
I believe that God wants to use all the resources that He has given us: our gifts, our time, our hearts. And yes, we are storing up treasures for ourselves in heaven; but that is only because God is so generous with us, not because we are capable of earning anything.
Speaking of pies, my mom, having engaged in what we refer to as a “baking frenzy”, brought six for Thanksgiving. As their were 8 of us, that was almost a pie per person…
We were eating pie for days.
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Thanks just1 for picking up where my brain left off. I really did mean to get into those points…just don’t know some days…
…………………….. LOL about the pies – yum.
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you guys are swell guys. I think we all have been exposed to lies long enough. THIS WEBSITE IS GOOD FOR RECOVERING WOFHOLICS> we all have been exposed to so many lies that it takes a toll overtime. WHEN YOU THINK THAT WHAT YOU HAVE BELEIVED AND THE PEOPLE YOU RESPECT THE INNOCENSE THAT YOU ONCE HAD IS LOST FOREVER!!! When you are told that if you disagree and the leadership wont even listen to you or a group of members gather in the office with the pastor and shout you down what is the use to fight against false doctrine. It was horriable there to be made an example and picking up the pieces. I am determined that God loves me and I will find my place in God again. The thing that kept me going was the true love of christ not members. I never denied the trure divinity of Christ. How much of the church world really know the truth of Christ. when I came back to Jesus during the jesus movement God was so Good to me. I published the word on my car won everyone to Jesus. How stupid could I be. I hope God sees this blog.
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Tracy Sweetheart, lets not fight against false doctrine but let us stand together for TRUTH JUSTICE & RIGHTEOUSNESS ( that is rightness before a Holy God)..
we have been made examples of too & are still dealing with the fallout… so let us run the race set before us-
dont forget Jesus, the Author & finisher of our faith was as made the ultimate example of….
sending hugs zazzy x
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Tracy,
If it was a matter of intelligence, many more people would be saved. You’re not stupid. Remember, the enemy has been at this game from the beginning. God is patient with all of us; and, as long as we keep in His Word, He will work out all of the kinks….(including mine, praise God!).
When we were infants in the Word, we were tossed around by the cunning of men and the deception of every wave of false teaching. As we mature, God sanctifies us through His Word (see John 17). It is a process, and He is smiling down on you for loving Him more than all that other stuff….believe me. He sees everything. He knows every hair on your head.
And, Zazzy is so right, we have been made examples of…sometimes in brutal ways. God allows this for His own purpose in our lives, and I’m not even pretending to understand all of that. Keep looking ahead to Jesus and trusting in His Word and let the past pass by. Forgive them from your heart and pray for those who hurt you. God will do the rest.
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Thanks everyone. I love you all.
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Today preachers in the wof are all over the place mudding up the true gospel with the health wealth and prosperity gospel. They have replaced it with a satanic gospel that does not resemble the true gospel. Did Jesus come so we could all drive mercede benz? Did he come so we can have our best life now. This is our worst live now. Our life in this world is our worst life but in Christ it is our best life. Self help motivatied speakers like joel olsteen is a tyipical woF miinster. He calls sin a mistake and sprinkles bits of god in his messages but never hardly talks about what is important. Not a better self image but what truly brings true happyness. The WOf propaganda is a lie from the pit of hell. It does not come close to what Jesus taught. Kenneth hagen has spawned the most gigantic helish unrelinting attack by satan in history on the Us. and threw out the world. Like a pied piper leading mirads of people to there spitual death. When I went to our Rehma sponsered Bible school The title of our lesson schooling for ruling. It showed us how we could be the mastor threw our own creative faith speaking force. Today there are all kinds of voices in the world but the scripture says we will follow only one voice if we are truly bornagain and that is Jesus christ . God came to this earth to a sin sick world and gave his only begotten son so we could have eternal life. He didnt settle for what satan had to offer him and neither should we. I said that I must find my place again but I was wrong. I have always had my place in Christ. As I was just surfing the internet when I realized that sometimes we become broken it seems in a thousand pieces. So god can put us back togeather right. If I am to be useful to god I must decrease so Christ can increase. >If we are the captain of our own souls like the wof claims and little gods like john lake preached then how can christ increase. The wof. dogma takes only the scripturre that pertains to their doctrine to bosture their new religion. But a old lie. I would like to thank Mkayla for giving me the chance to voice my comments. It is great therepy. I want to close with a great annointed man of god from W. Virgina who was my pastor for anumber of years who had the greatest influence on me.
HE HAD A DREAM WHEN HE WAS A BOY IN THE MOUNTAINS OF WEST VIRGINA IN COAL COUNTRY. HE HEARD A KNOCK ON THE DOOR. HE THOUGHT WHO WAS IT. SO HE OPENED IT. IT WAS JESUS. HE SAID TO JESUS HOW CAN I HELP YOU SIR. JESUS SAID COULD YOU GIVE ME A DRINK OF WATER. THE BOY SAID ILL BE RIGHT BACK. HE RUSHED TO THE ICE BOX AND GAVE JESUS THE BEST HE HAD. WHAT WAS IT. IT WAS CREAM. DURING THAT TIME IT WAS THE GREAT DEPRESSION. THAT WAS A V ALUED COMODITY. I WONDER ARE WE GIVING JESUS THE BEST WE HAVE?
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E.W. was good at coming up with a title and then finding scripture and taking it out of context and making it gospell. What does kenneth hagin have to do with it? He ressurected it in his books. He didnt get his ideas from jesus personally. He got it by pleasurisng E.W. One of the thesis that E.W. wrote that God is reproducing him self in us. In that he clearly Mixed New age and christian scriptue to make a false primises. Paul Harvey would often say this is the rest of the story. Will this is the rest of the story. I am not the God Man but Jesus Is. He is fully God and man. He did not finish our attoinment in hell. He did not become born again in hell. Satan was not sent to adam and eve to the garden to help them. God is a soverign God and nothing takes him by supprise. Adam did not fly with the birds so he could have dominion over them. We are not little Gods. Jesus is the first and the last, alpha and omega the beggining and the end our high priest and there will not be anyone quite like him again. Jesus did not find out who he was by reading the scriptures he knew who he was all the time. It goes on and on and on. The father declaired him as God. He died on an old rugged cross was ressurected the third day and was caught in the clouds of glory and now again sets on the right side of godthe and interceedes for us. So how can we not give him the glory.
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Today the pastor came by to give my wife a key because she agreed to decorate the christmas tree. She was in charge of decorating the church. I was gone painting. When I got home she said that “pastor wanted to know when we were coming back.” She told him that because of doctrinal differences that it was time to leave. There was to much arguing and time is to short to argue over doctrinal differences. I then called him up and basicly said the same thing but there wasnt nothing personal. We have been truly liberated because we have stood up for the true word of God. God told us not to be rude and we wasnt. How do you balance what you have been taught all these years and knowing that the truth of god is within you? I will tell you how by not denying the power of God. By not pushing the Holy Spirit out of your life and by lifting jesus up. The Scripture says in the last days people will have a form of Godliness but denying the power there of. The word of faith like it was presented to me puts God in the back seat. and us in the drivers seat. It makes our confessing soveringn and god is subject to us. That is blasphmey and needs an ajustment. We were taught in bible shool that if we confessed the right scripture God was obligated to do what we demanded. It was so odd to see our pastors wife pray scripture beleiveing that this is the only way god could answer prayer and God was obligated to give what she wanted. But it never happened. Our pastor has heart trouble, hip replacement, poor eyesight , and almost deaf in both ears. But yet he still holds on to his wof doctrine. The old saying to keep doing the samething over and over again and expecting a different out come is foolish. Every day I tell god that he is god and am so happy that he saved me so many years ago. I started to going to church one week out of the hospital in a open bible church. I hope that if there is anyone out there that has gone threw what we have just remember that God loves you and does want the best for you but he will not share his deity with Satan or any man or any angel. Thanks MAKAYLA.
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The “best” God wants for us relates to the spiritual side, not the physical. It is a quite a mixed point in WOF who believe our lives are all about blessing, gifting, where money is the god. To find a way out of every hard situation denies a person the true blessing that only comes from walking thru the fire with Him. That is the place where the wisdom and knowledge of the one true God starts. Expecting miracles and breakthrough anointings keeps us from the truth. It serves the flesh and at the very bottom, like you said, Satan.
Be well my friend. 🙂
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Mkayla that is so true you hit the nail on the head. There is so much in the bible about how like for instance how riches are more of a deterant than a help. Take for instance it harder for a camel to go through the eye of a needle than for a rich man to enter the kingdom heaven. Or how about when paul told Gaius in 3rd John 2 Beloved, I wish above all things that thou mayest prosper and be in health even as thy soul prosperth. To prosper is to have a sucsessful journal not neccesarly to be rich. God never wishs for anything. He comands and is all soverign. Paul was simply saying a greeting to his beloved friend who he fathered in the lord. Remember when paul said in Romans 9:3 For I could wish that myself were accursed from Christ for my brethern. But if wishing were faith then paul could of had what he said because he word of faith says you can have what you say and I guantee paul was not accursed. But a wish is just a wish. It is a strong desire that we have for some one or something but that is all it is. The word of faith has built a whole doctrine from 3rd. John 1 with one problem. They have twisted the scripture so bad for one reason. For personal gain. I fell in this trap hook line and sinker. Or how about when they say that Jesus was rich. He did have a bueatiful Robe seamless something a king would where because he was a king but he didnt live in a mansion. He didnt drive a gold clad chariot, And he had no personal servants. But he was rich in spirtual things. now where did Jesus profess that we would be materially rich. Just the opposite. Read the B attitudes. Blessed are the poor in spirit for theirs is the kingdom of heaven. That is why among many other examples that the word of faith is a false relegious cult who promises something that they cant deliver.
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Mkayla to be prosperous is for instance to be sucessful in our endaver for the lord. Not to heap lusts upon ourselves. If being prosperous was a sign of being rich then the church world as a whole has missed the mark. In 1968 because of my own fault was racing up the loop and hit a car on the side of it with my motorcyle. The 3rd day I started to vomit blood and they gave me a tremendous amount of blood. That is when I had a out of the body experince. I fought desperately too live. When I left my body I looked back and could see myself. AT that time I was back slidden and was away from Jesus. I remember fighting demons they were trying to take me away. I cried out to god to save me. Will Im here! It took me ten yrs. to recover from that accident. I have a leg that is peiced togeather. When I hear the measage that the word of faith had to offer it was right up my alley. But you know something mkayla it didnt work for me. What did Is Gods grace is sufficent for today. What ever I go through, what ever valley, or whatever moutain I have to climb God will help me. Where would we be with out Jesus?
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Merry Christmas Mkayla and Everyone. I am going to spend some time with family. Hope you all Prosper in Jesus and be in good health. Love you all.
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Merry Christmas Tracy.
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God Bless you and yours Tracy; and may He keep us all safely in His Word!
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Just 1 may god bless you to and I enjoy your comments immensly. Have a Jesus filled Christmas Brother.
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The wof teaches that God used faith filled word to create the universe. While Kenneth hagen teaches that we must have the God kind of fath. The scriptre that they use is this. Hebrews 11;3 Through faith we understand that the worlds were framed by the word of God, so that things which are seen were not made of things wihich are seen were not made of things which do appear. They go on further to procalim that if we use the word of god we to can create, because if god used faith to create the worlds than we can use the god kind of faith to create our world. That is totally false what that verse says. It is through our faith that we understand that the worlds were framed by th word of God, so that things which are seen were not made of things which do appear. It is talking about creationlism and how we can rely on the word of god to know and trust that he did create the world by his awsome power and not by faith because he doesnt need faith he is soveign and all powerful.. See how the wof turns the word around.
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The wof faith teaches that we can have the God kind of faith. By possesing this special faith we can create our own worlds and call those thing forth like god did. One problem , god doesnt use faith we do. Lets examine what scripture they use says. Hebrews 11:3. “Through faith we understand that the worlds were framed by the word of God, so that things which are seen were not made of things which do appear.” They took this scripture out of context to mean through faith he created the worlds when it really is saying Throug faith we understand. God is Soveirgn and all powerful and again to carry it to the extreme like some wof preachers do we can have what we say.
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Tracy, the link and the following quote taken from the article adds to what you are saying. THANKS!!!
This belief is a twist on Romans 4:16-17, taking it out of its context with the emphasis solely on the latter part of verse seventeen. But read in its entirety –
16 Therefore, the promise comes by faith, so that it may be by grace and may be guaranteed to all Abraham’s offspring—not only to those who are of the law but also to those who are of the faith of Abraham. He is the father of us all. 17 As it is written: “I have made you a father of many nations.” He is our father in the sight of God, in whom he believed—the God who gives life to the dead and calls things that are not as though they were.
Power belongs to God and to Him alone and that is what this verse is getting at. It is God who calls these things, not people.
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Here is a quote from charles capps book The tongue,A creative force. p.17. Man was created in the image of God and His likeness. There was creative power that flowed out of the mouth of God, and you were created in the image of God. Then, according to the Scriptures and what Jesus said, you have the same ability dwelling or residing on the inside of you. The Key word to this is this ;we have the same ability dwelling or residing on the inside of us. If that be the case where are the miracles, whose sins have we forgiven lately, how about how many tornadoes do we have under our belts. Kenneth haggin has made many millions of dollars on his books. Why am I so dogmatic about the cultic behavior of the word of faith. Just like the false religion of Mary bakker eddie hundreds if not thousands have died bedcause ot refusing treatment for children as will as adults. A multitude of false preachers as will as self proclaimed propfets have led scores of people completey turned off to the gospell. Some are even athiests. I sat in a word of faith church for 16 yrs. Not being allowed to ask even allowed to talk unless it pertained to the word of faith. I am not bitter and I am finally free in Christ and sometimes I feel like I was released from prison for a crime that I didnt even commit and I want to shout from the house tops Im free Im free Im free .I just wan to say one thing satan keeps people captive in false doctrine and you must be the one to release your self from his chains.
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Lately I have been thinking about what makayla has said and also the dangerous teaching methods of Kenneth Hagen. How important are words. Will our pastor said when I am on the pulpit I am gods authority and the faith filled words that i speak can bring life or death. He went so far to say that when you disagree with his teachings you will suffer the wrath of God. Will I did some looking on differnt sites and ran in to a video By her granddaughter Angie Anti Theist. It was intitlled what it was like to grow up in a cult. Guess what it was, a wof cult that her grandmother was heavly influenced by Kenneth copelands teachings. Let me please give you a little summery of this cult Carol Bilizet a former nurse advocates natural home births. Claiming only prayer is needed to bring life into this world. She heads “home in Zion ministries” Her book born in zion heaavily influenced the Attleboro. cult, the religous group curently under investigation for death of two children. One of the things she taught is if you have complications and loose your baby through natrual child birth it is the will of God. Even if the child is delivered and doesnt breath you are to rebuke the devil for one half hour and if the child doesnt breath it is gods will. Her granddaughter is now a atheist but is exposing some of the things her grandmather taught. Makayla what has happened to her grandmother and her wof cult. She was born in 1933. Through out her life she had a bad hip so her family convinced her to go for hip replacement. She was driving her car and had a stroke, and has altimers and resides in a nursing home in Denver colorado. Her cultic group is no more and some of her relatives now get medical help threw traditional ways. Thats all I could find. Yes word does kill. How many babys and mothers have died because they believed to go to a hospital and get medical treatment was against the word. The more I dig into the word of faith the more I see how lucky God finally got through to us it was the time leave.
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We were taught at our church bible school about mountain moving faith by kenneth hagin. Boy it sounded to me like if I could have that kind of faith that I could have what I say . So that kept eating at me. Why wasnt I seeing that kind of faith. Wasnt I good enough? So I got my commentaries out and this is what I found out what the mountain is. lets look at the bible because it is the final authority. Math 17:19Then came the disciples to Jesus; apart, and said Why could not we cast him out. And Jesus said unto them, Because of your unbelief; for verily I say unto you, If ye have faith as a grain of mustard seed,ye shall say unto this mountain, ” Lets stop right here. Shall say unto this mountain. Is that the mountain of poverty, do we say at prosperity come forth now in name of jesus and magically it appears. What was the mountain for gash sakes any way. No these things only come about by fasting and praying. what is it. The mountain in this case is the mountain that held the child captive for so long. It is any thing that exalts itself against the true word of god not the word of lies. ” Remove hence to younder place and it shall remove; and nothin shall be impossible unto you. What is he talking about anyway. is it mount everest. This is exagerated so jesus could make his point. Like when jesus said if your eye offend thee , pluck it out, and cast it from thee: it is better for thee to enter into life with one eye, rather han having two eyes to be cast into fire. Are we christians suppose to be one eyed. jacks. Ablolutely not.Do we pluck our eye out no we stop looking at what we shouldnt. He was talking about the true faith not give me give me my name is jimmy. Howbeit this kind goeth not out but by prayer and fasting. Not comanding god like he is a puppet. What did Jesus come to do. To destroy the works of the devil. And not put us in royces, bentley, and luxury life style. 18: And Jesus rebuked the devil; and he departed out of him and the child was cured from that very hour. I dont have mountain moving faith and I dont drive a corvet but I have a simple faith in Jesus that what I may go threw THE BATTLE ISNT MINE IT IS THE LORDS. Sometimes it is tough this old life but a bright tommorrow will expell the darkness.
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Ive taken enough space and Makayla has been so gracious alowing me to post. Folks god isnt going to remove a mountain unless there is a purpose but if he wanted to he sure could because this earth belongs to him. He still isnt out of the miracle working business but he isnt going to alow the pemps much longer to prostitute the gospell. Web sites like these are getting the word out. I would like to tell a true story about a dear friend. We will call her Jane. Jane at christmas time went about doing good. Churchs from all over would send what the needy were short of and she would meet their needs. From food, furniture, refrigerators, and so on. Every christmas she would do this. Untill she started to listen to Kenneth Copeland. One day she went into a fur coat store and fine clothing. She told the sales person that she wanted this fur coat and to deliver it to her house which was across the river. She had her husband wait all afternoon but it didnt get there. She didnt pay for it. To day she is divorced from her husband for a younger man. Folks I am not a bible scolar or teacher just a person that belives Jesus is God who was manifested in the flesh. Sin is rampent in the church.What has happened to the church? I have to exaimne my heart to make sure that everything with my heart is o.k and this world hasnt crept in. Why dont they makayla?
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Tracy, I can’t really say. People have a way of following the famous. They have no love of the truth at all, but would rather hear about things that make them feel good about who they are. The church not only went in the direction of false teachers, it also went to the way of the world. How many worship services are nothing more than rock concerts, where performers imitate their favorite rock and rollers? Think that’s not wrong? They are sinners, full of sin – greed, lust, drugs, abandoned families, yet the world loves them. How many sermons have been taught based on some cute thing that got said on a famous sit com? What has the word of Hollywoood writer to do with the word of God? In an effort to save the lost we bring in unbelievers and tone down the message to make it more acceptable, hoping they would have a good time and come back. Somehow, someway they will be saved, tho we don’t dare tell them they are sinners. We appease the sinner and call it ministry. We chuck out the teaching of the bible and bring in psychology with an effort to combine the two. We read books and pass them around, brag about them from the pulpit…yet the bible is tossed aside. We focus on numbers and cash giving and justify it by claiming it is needed to preach the gospel. But where did the real gospel go?
So, what has happened to the church? Well, some of us are in prep for what is coming, and we long ago tired of men-at-the-pulpit games. Who knows when or how long…but it is coming.
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Makyla I have finally hit gold on your blog. As I was thinking about mountain moving faith something struck me. I dont need a mountain faith I only need mustard seed faith, and then I can remove mountains. And believe you me I do have some mountains to be removed.. In Math 17;20 it reads; And Jesus said onto them, Because of your unbelief: for verily I say unto you, If ye have faith as a grain of mustard seed ye shall say unto this mountain, Remove hense to younder place; and it shall remove; and nothing shall be impossible unto you.In mark 11:22 And Jesus answering saith unto them, Have faith in God. And I already have faith on God. In Rom.12;3 For I say, through the grace given uto me, to every man that is amoung you, not to think of himself more highly than he ought to think; but to think soberly, according as God hath dealt to every man the measure of faith. I have already been dealt the mustard seed faith and it is more than enough to remove any mountain that I may have hindering me and I have faith in god not the God kind of faith I am in a win win situation. The reason I was drawn to the word of faith was because I wanted something I already had. That is the last piece 0f my puzzle. My long 16 yr search is finally over. and I can go where no man has gone and I can reach new fronteers Thank-you Makayla.
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Tracy, I think a lot of what is wrong with the WOF is that it is so often based on what God is going to do. A miracle. A deliverance. A big family revival And my personal favorite THE breakthrough. gag. Christ died for us while we were still sinners. God chose to send His Son to His horrendous death knowing every thing that every single human being throughout time would do on this earth and He knew this in advance. Christ knew there was a way out and yet, still He chose the plan and will of the Father. What could be more miraculous than that kind of love?
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Tracy,
God hears our grieving and mourning…..
“Then the LORD called to the man clothed in linen who had the writing kit at his side and said to him, ‘Go throughout the city of Jerusalem and put a mark on the foreheads of those who grieve and lament over all the detestable things that are done in it.’
As I listened, he said to the others, ‘Follow him through the city and kill, without showing pity or compassion. Slaughter old men, young men and maidens, women and children, but do not touch anyone who has the mark. Begin at my sanctuary.’ ” (Ezekiel 9:3b-5)
I sometimes think that the LORD has taken us all just close enough to grieve and mourn over all the detestable things done in the church….
Praise Him for each one who comes out!
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I have wondered for such a long time now… what is a “breakthrough” & if we knew how would we know when we got one…. such a carrot for a big stick
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Makayla your wisdom is so good and god has given you it liberaly. Im kind of down because tonight was our X pastors wifes birthday party. I decided to go and I think it was a mistake. I stood up for the word and was pretty firm. I told him of some of the truth I had learned about the wof. I flat out told him I may never see him again because of his age and wanted to see him one more time. It kind of put a scare in him but I felt that way. I told him that he cant use words to get what he wants but has to have them mixed with true faith and you cant put god in the back seat. He said will word wont matter to you because you dont have any faith any way. I told him how false hagen was and how wrong copeland was then he left and came back. He said I will tell you what. I will respect your faith and you respect my faith. Of course he used his hands. His was higher than mine. Again he used his position and considered it above mine. You dont even have a pastor. I guess to him I am the biggest heathen in the world. I said no I wont make that deal at all. He walked away but wouldnt say much to me. How can I compromise my faith to keep a friend. So when I left I felt that I would make this offer to him. I said you are my former pastor and you have been our friend for years I will make this deal How about neither one of us respect each others belief and we will leave it at that. I had to get it out between him and I because if you feel that you have been wronged you must face him head on between him and you. This is an on going thing and he will not even listen to any thing I have to say even if hes been to Rehma. I will not be belittled any more but I will stand up for what I believe even at the cost of my only friend and realize that I have friends on Makayla Korner and most of all Jesus is a true friend.
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Tracy, I’m sorry. I know it is hard. You are right. We cannot compromise. Things are only going to get worse.
Be well and at peace.
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This is anorther day and I am glad that I went last night. It seems as though by getting it all out with him something has took place. I have more confidence. And reading the comment that you makayla expresses it better than I can. I wondered last night why was I so tore up inside and then what I realized that the Holy Spirit was greived. He may of made me disapointed but really what the word says do not be around false doctrine. I must not go back to the well again to get because the water is bad. Even though I pray for all of the pastor and church members that is really all I can do. That is why I really appreciate Makaylas because the holy Spirit is establishing lives again threw this ministry and Even though he said I dont have a pastor I do have someone I can rely on and someone that wont put me down when I say I have mustard seed faith it is Makayla and she is just as much to me pastor as anyone out there. Thank you Makayla for being there.
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Romans 10:8 But what saith it? The word is nigh thee, even in thy mouth, and in thy heart:that is the word of faith, which we preach: That if thou shalt confess with thy mouth Lord Jesus, and shalt belive in thine heart that God hath raised him from dead,thou shalt be saved. This is the true word of faith. Has the church forgotten?
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Tracy,
The most hateful behavior I ever experienced in a “church” was in a wof when I questioned things that were being taught. It was so very painful; but God saw me through, as He will you. “Spiritual arrogance” is a fruit of the wof church, and it is a brutal thing when you come face to face with it. Be thankful in your heart that God delivered you from it; and pray that he forgive those who hurt you. I am convinced that they truly do not know what they do.
I equate it to Paul when he stood by and allowed the stoning of Stephen in Acts. As with Stephen, I think the best thing we can cry out when injured by them is “Father, forgive them; they know not what they do.” Then, you will be at peace with the LORD. They will have to give answer, ultimately.
You have shown your faith in Jesus to be true, because you chose the truth of His Word over all the excesses of false doctrine. Rejoice, my friend, you share in the sufferings of Christ Jesus; you will indeed share in His glory when He appears!
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Just 1 that is the most ecouraging thing I have ever heard. It is so soothing to hear what you have said. You are truly a bro in christ. Thanks!
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@Tracy, Your previous pastor said, “You dont even have a pastor (shepherd).”
Jesus said, ““I am the good shepherd, and I know My own and My own know Me, even as the Father knows Me and I know the Father; and I lay down My life for the sheep.”
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One of the things we have to deal with when coming out of WOF or the prophetic mvmnt or “third wave,” etc is the belief in levels of spirituality. Few would ever say they believe some believers are “higher” than others, but as Tracy saw, it is indeed what is truly believed in the heart of so many “ministers.”
When you are a follower in one of these movements, you can all too easily absorb that belief unconsciously and then it is reinforced by all the times we do not question or ask for clarification because surely the ‘pastor’ knows more than us.
It causes me sorrow to hear about how Tracy was treated and to recall so many who have similar stories. Take heart. You are not rebellious to ask questions. None of us are above the word of God, and it must be our highest standard and guideline.
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These were really encouraging remarks for me Thank-you so much. These are the kind of remarks that brings forth life.
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Love, love, love the bank VP’s cash v. counterfeit training story! Bingo! Handle the gospel daily, feeding it like water and bread to our own sinful souls and those of our disciples, seeing its power manifest constantly, and when we come across a shiny, powerless substitute that offers no victory over the power of sin in our hearts, we’ll spit it out like the poison it is!
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M’Kayla Recently I traced the Abrahamic covenant tha tGod promised Abraham. I traced it all the way to the new testament. I found out that different times that this was sealed in blood sacrifice. Another word that Abraham offered up to god a certain sacrifice it was a promise that was sealed not only on god behalf but on mans behalf. When Abraham offered a sacrifice to god he split the sacrifice in two and god passed through the sacrifice that this was a unilateral if you will promise to Abraham. Another word god was responsible to fulfill his promise to Abraham. But as time went on the seed of Abraham which was passed on threw Isaak and threw the other descendent of Abraham did not keep their word to god and rebelled and served false Gods. Well they payed the price as a nation but there has always been and god remembered his covenant that he made to Abraham. It passed on down also to David and Christ was from the seed of Abraham. Will Jesus came to The seed of Abram to again restore to them the promise that he had made to Abraham. They rejected him and we have now the promises thru Christ. We have received what the was promised to Israel. Not discount What God has done in the past but what he will do in the future. Now the word of faith teach that no matter what we have the promises of Abraham but they have missed one small thing. If my people will humble themselves and fall on there face I will heal their lands. You can not bypass God and go to the promises as Israel found out. You have to develope a relationship with Christ and thru him we have his promises only please excuse the spelling my computer is old..
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Christ was also from the seed of david and would sit on his throne. I hope that the errors that I have made and not to mention what the scripture says about that. I had some questions Why am I not healed and why am I not prosperous after sitting under wof teachings for so long. I had some big questions and I know that the revelation that I got exceeds what i can express. I have a resposibilty to remain prosperous and healed and so forth. To remain in christ and him only because the stone the builders rejected has now become the chief cornerstone. Anorther words to me if I build on anyother foundation God will reject it. Today and wife gets tired at me but any doctrine that makes christ second is not for me at all. Today I happened to park beside my pastor and his wife at sears. they were getting out of their truck. They turned their back aginst me. But I expected that. I found in the scripture that if you dont have the doctrine of Christ the complete doctrine then you are still in you sins. So I have choice Christ and him only.
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Makayla I apologize I have done a horrible job in explaining the promises through Christ and through the seed of abraham and how the word of faith has prostituted this to the church world.I have been been on the computer to much and my eyes have grown blurry. That is my fault so with your elequence you can say much better than I can. Thanks I will be waiting.
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Tracy, we know that word of faith is based on the teachings of the law of attraction, not on scripture. I think you did a fine job in explaining your thoughts. The only thing I would do differently is to add some scripture for reference. It isn’t required, but makes it easier to understand, and gives us a place of reference to learn (edify :))
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Thanks.
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Their are actually Five doctrines that our pastor taught us in church bible school that he learned in Remah bible school but I want to go over one. Jesus was just a man and we are just as much a incarnation as Jesus was. Dont take my word for it let us see what the bible teaches. Col. 2:9 For in him dwelleth all the fulness of the Godhead bodily. We were taught about the diety of Christ he was like a light bulb not lit. Also in John 1;1 In the beginning was the word, and the word was with God, and the word was God. (14) And the word was made flesh, and dwelt among us,and we beheld the Glory of the only begotten of the father full of grace. Yes he was born of a virgin but he was also the son of god. Not what are we to do with the word of faith preacher or anyone that doesnt bring the doctrine of Christ. Dont take my word take the word of the bible. II john 9> Who soever transgresseth, and abideth not in the doctrine of Christ hath not God. He that abideth in the doctrine of Christ,he hath both the Father and the son.(10) If there come any unto you, and bring not this doctrin, receive him not into your house neither bid him Gods speed:11 For he that biddeth him God speed is partaker of his evil deeds. That is why to me they say they worship the father but they cant worship him if they dont have him. It is so easy to tell if some one is saved. The other day at the mall I asked a 80 yr. old man who he thought jesus was he said a moral man. All of his life he went to congressional chruch but he didnt know if he was going to heaven How Sad.
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Thank you makayla for your web site it is such a refreshing time that I can spend on your web site that I know I can always get a encouraging word. The comments of people mean so much to me. I have been under heavy attilery by the enemy lately. I know that I can always come to port and get rest.
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Tracy,
Moses hated the sound of his voice so much, that he badgered God into sending another (Aaron) to speak for him. Just something to remember as you are taking your place on the wall that is the Word of God. None of us are up to that task apart from Jesus Christ; but He uses our weaknesses that the world might know that it is Him! Eloquence means nothing.
That you can love and forgive your former pastor for his cruelty and pray that God may show he and his wife mercy and bring them to the truth; that is highly valued in God’s Kingdom.
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I transcribed this message some time back.
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Just that is very good advice and I will take it to heart. Thanks !
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Thank-you Mayla
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Whew!
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Makayla Just 1 had a word of wisdom for me. and I appreciate it. I recently ran in to a jew hater when I was blogging on another web site. I believe he belonged to joels army. He thought I was a jew but he later apologized. Will I pointed him to the scripture when Jesus said to love your enemies and pray for the people that despitefully use you.Will his response that he carries a sword and is the advenger. You know sometimes when we minister to someone else god is acutually ministery to you also. We have all been hurt one way or anorther by differnent people but we must always mix the truth with prayer like just 1 says. By praying for someone that is in false doctrine it accomplishes two things. It opens up the pathway for someone to witness to them and also releases you from the burden that we may carry around with us.
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Hello makayla just thought I would say Hi! It has been awhile since I commented and I thought I would post something on this website to hash around. Some of us have comeout of differnent religious groups untouched and other maybe have been hurt. One of the things I have noticed in some cults is the religious leaders how controling they have been. In my case it was mainly pupit control. And it dawned on me that really what may have been said is this. To prove yourself and defend what I may or may not have said. Well since I have become more wiser something has dawned on me. I dont have to defend anything. I have to merly have a relationship with Christ Jesus and allow the Holy Spirit to give me the words at a very proper time to touch peoples lives. By being in the defensive mode I am constantly cretiquing myself and how can I bear good fruit. I also am having a constant battle with myself. I just wanted to know if maybe I have hit on something and maybe will get comments about this. Thanks!
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“I dont have to defend anything. I have to merly have a relationship with Christ Jesus and allow the Holy Spirit to give me the words at a very proper time to touch peoples lives. By being in the defensive mode I am constantly cretiquing myself and how can I bear good fruit. I also am having a constant battle with myself. I just wanted to know if maybe I have hit on something and maybe will get comments about this.”
Glad you said it Tracy. This has been something of a battle for me personally, and it is such an amazing reminder. When former pastors, church leadership, or even people we believed to be dear friends call our motives and hearts into question; I think it can be very easy to get fall into a self-critical/defensive mode.
When I was coming out of the wof church, there was such a scorning toward me and conviction on the part of people who I had trusted that I was in need of “deliverance”. The truth was that I was standing firmly in the Word of God and trusting Him over the teachings of men. But, the reality of standing against people you had loved and shared fellowship who are now “demonizing” you is something that is very difficult to deal with. We share in His sufferings. That thought has been an important one for me to keep a handle on,
It is a timely note that we are not here to “prove” anything to anyone else, but to trust in God through Jesus Christ to work in us as He wills to do so, not for the pleasing of others, but to the glory of a Holy God.
Resting in Him this day….
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Just 1 it was great to read your posting when we relize that were not the only one that has gone thru things like we may have it is encouraging to say the least. II cor. 5:18 The bible says we are called into the ministry of reconciliation and part of that is to be a watchman on the wall. In Nehemiah 2;17 Then said I unto them, Ye see the distress that we are in, how Jerusalem lieth waste, and the gates thereof are burned with fire: come, and let us build up the wall of Jerusalem, that we be more reproach. To day we must be on the wall and rebuild our world because it lies in waste. I remember everytime my pastor would grind in the word and that what it felt like I would go home and re hash what I already new and that is why I came up with the samething that the Holy Spirit has proved over and over to me. I realized what I was doing is trying to hold on to the truth. But in reality the pastor was trying to plant seeds of heresy in me. It was a battle. I appreciate your kind words and always am ready to read your comments. Thanks!
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just 1 we must be on the wall so we can rebuild the breach. The enemy is trying to do his dead level best to keep us off the wall so the truth does not get out. I remeber when my wife and I packed up some grocerys and headed out to the appalacian mountains to give food and the word to those poor people. The only ones we touched was just one person. She worked in a convience store and was a pastors wife at one time. All that way 1800 miles to encourage just one person. But it was worth it to me because it was worth it to God. If we can touch just one person and turn them away from a path of destruction it is worth it all.
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Just thought I would shout at everyone.
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I decided to change my name to holyghostman and stop using my name. I hope that is okay. I have some good news to report. My old pastor is listening to the sonlife broadcasting 24/7 and is going to preach on the cross easter. Believe it or not he invited me and my wife. Just 1 I took your advice and prayer really works. Thanks!
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I think I like the name Tracy better.
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REPOSTING FROM 10/2012 because it bears repeating –
I didn’t write this article –
I keep asking for someone who supports Hagin to show me where in the bible we can find his claims, teaching, notions, prophecies, experiences, etc…I studied under him for some time, and even thought for a great number of years he was right on the money. I found out differently simply by comparing his stuff to the word of God. People come here and defend his name yet can’t give me one scripture – in context – that claims the things he did. I guess it is hard finding out your most beloved bible teacher stole writings from a new age teacher and sold those lies as truth.
—
And so here we are – –
Until I get some real conversation and some good bible references to prove wrong these claims, I flat out refuse to post another in-Hagin-defense comment. So, don’t waste your time typing anything unless you can do this because I have only one button to push for the trash can. And trash it, I will.
Thanks everyone for your cooperation.
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T.
Good to hear about your church. I pray things continue to go well for you and all in that church.
In my hometown, there is a pastor who is a part of the ELCA who I know quite well, as I have relatives who have attended his church. When ELCA adopted their very liberal doctrines a few years ago, this particular pastor was lovingly confronted with scripture by some of these relatives. I was present to quietly support them in prayer, and I witnessed the entire exchange. He defended the ELCA position and refused to hear the Word of God.
Recently, I had a relative pass away very unexpectedly and this man was asked to do the funeral. Many people on this side of the family are not saved. When I learned who was leading the funeral, I started to pray that God would open that man’s mouth to speak the Gospel to all those unsaved souls. Unknown to me, my mom was praying for the same thing.
God is Faithful! At the funeral, this pastor preached the Gospel, and nothing but the Gospel. In spite of that, he continues to defend the ELCA liberal twisting of scripture. In other words, nothing changed. I was really disappointed when I understood that this man has remained stubborn in his heart against the Word of God, in spite of hearing the Gospel come out of his mouth in so powerfully.
God can open the mouth of even the dumb donkey when He wants to. I really hope that things are turning around in your church. Our hopes have to cling to Jesus Christ and Him crucified regardless of the outcome, good or bad, in any of these churches.
God does absolutely answer prayer, but men are still given free will to follow Him or not.
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