Crowder and Dunn – Be Warned

I said I wasn’t going to post the crap from Crowder and Dunn (Sons of Thunder, Santa Cruz, CA) but with the joining of their wives and Beni Johnon (Bill Johnson, Bethel, Redding, CA) it seems important for others to be aware of these jokers and where their support and adoration are going. This is beyond spiritual drunkenness and who knows where it will end for them and their followers. I can’t imagine anyone taking them seriously as Christians, much less allowing their children to become involved with them.

Be warned – these videos are most offensive!

tokin’ the ghost

John Crowder – Magic Carpet Ride

Crowder at the grave of John Alexander Dowie – Also I would like to point out the healing (false) connection between Dowie and John G. Lake, and later with Cal Pierce – International Association of Healing Rooms. Bill Johnson and he are friends, Bill is on the board of directors.

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49 thoughts on “Crowder and Dunn – Be Warned

  1. Mkayla
    The Sons of Thunder web page has a blurb for John Crowders upcoming ” Mystical School” conferences, just reading through the various workshop headings made me shudder.This bears no likeness whatsoever to biblical understanding, but comes over as being purely demonic.
    If this is what Bethel and co are aligning themselves with, then any semblance of respectability that may have still existed has surely evaporated.There is no content in either of these so caled ministries that merits any involvement or association with them whatsoever.

  2. Ray, and from what I remember months back in reading Crowder’s “salvation experience” if you can call it that, it had nothing at all to do with repentance. It was quite strange.

  3. I’ve watch all of these videos,and more: I had to do it in small doses it made me so ill. I’m sure you probably checked out his website. The links he lists on his site go from Bill Johnson (Bethel) to Toronto, etc. he lists Todd Bently and then goes on to say that they are personal friends and have traveled together. In your post you say that their wives are “joining” Benni Johnson? Would you please explain that? The Johnson’s, (prophet Kris Valloton), Toronto, Brownsville,Bill Hamon… had been our flavor of deception that we were fed.It’s difficult to find alot on Johnson or Valloton, don’t know if their just not big enough yet or what. Thanks and blessing for you site, been here before but never commented.

  4. Hi Pat.
    My comment about the wives joining Benni J referred to the conference they did together – Lili Crowder, Stephanie Dunn and Benni – Girls Just Want to Have Fun. If you google Johnson you will find many links on him including the church, his ministry and his blog. His influence is reaching into many churches and ministries and I’ve had quite a few commentors whose churches change because of this influence. If there is something specific you are looking for, maybe I can help you find it. I wasn’t aware Valloton was considered a prophet but then I don’t listen to him.

    Thanks for the comment and the encouragement. :)

  5. Yes actually I am looking for as much info. on Bill Johnson as I can find, and yes Kris Valloton operates in the prophetic, I believe he started the school of supernatural ministry at Bethel. I have looked at the Bethel site and I know pretty much most of the “friends” lists, is along the same vein of deception. However once I ran across Crowder and Dunn the only connection that I came across was that Crowder and Todd Bentley are good friends,and of course I watched the endorsement of Bentley with Johnson, Stacey Campbell and crew. I will look up the “Girls Just Want to Have Fun”, and check it out. Thanks so much for the info. I greatly appreciate it. God Bless you

  6. When you say churches change because of Johnson, in what way do you mean? What have you seen to be the main outcomes of an association?

  7. Bill Johnson teaches out of Word of Faith and Dominionism and NAR doctrine with push on the supernatural experiences, dreams visions, the prophetic, etc. We’ve seen other church leadership attend his services, trainings and seminars taking what they learn from him back to their own churches, teaching it to their own congregations as truth.

    It is NOT the gospel of Jesus Christ taught in the bible. In fact, none of the teachings hold up to sound doctrine. When we take their teachings and compare them to scripture we find they are completely out of context; twisted to say what they want them to. There is no longer a love of the truth, but a love for the power, the anointing and the so-called authority that is given to them from another spirit. It is not Holy Spirit power at all. It is the workings of the demonic and the same practices are found throughout the occult and new age. It is very easy to see their lies. Unfortunately, many are too caught up in the oohs and aahhs to be bothered to look at the word of God to see the truth. He is a very dangerous person, one to be avoided – but not the only one.

  8. I need more info. on this John Crowder and Bill Johnson connection. Does Bill Johnson endorse Crowder? That should be a deal breaker for True Believers!

    Please everyone remember the battle is with Satan. I believe that there are those that are deceived and those that deceive!

    Pray for their eyes and ears to be opened!

  9. I believe he probably does since their wives did a conference together. But since he also supported Todd Bentley, it should not be suprising at all.

  10. Hey guys, what is it I did now? You could always ask me what I think instead of making up stories about me. I think this is mention somewhere in the bible…yea yea…a guy named Jesus spoke of about it.

    Kris Vallotton

  11. I don’t make things up. “A guy named Jesus” spoke about what exactly and to where in the bible are you referring? If you comment here, please be specific so the rest of us know to what you are referring.

    Thanks

  12. Kris,
    Where do you stand on Contemplative spirituality? Are you friends with Tony Campolo since you’re east coast? Tony’s big on Contemplative. He and I have discussed it a few times.

    Thanks.

  13. Kris, who are you for any of us to ask what you think? Have you been on this site before and if so, who are you?

  14. Kris Vallotton was not mentioned in my article. He was mentioned in the conversation in the hash box that he is involved in the Supernatural Ministry as a Pastor of Bethel Church in Redding CA, under the leadership of Bill Johnson. He is also considered to be a prophet, teacher, etc., also included in the discussion.

    If you want to know the truth, simply google his name and you will find who he is and what he does, what he stands for in his teaching, who he runs with and where he is headed geographically.

    I don’t understand his comment here as he made it sound as if I had, or someone else had said something about him that is not true. The information is easy to understand, as the truth is out there.

    For starters:
    http://twitter.com/kvministries
    • Name Kris Vallotton
    • Location Redding, CA
    • Web http://www.kvmini
    • Bio Revivalist, Prophet, Lover of God, Pastor, Husband, Father, Grandpa
    This information is captioned on his twitter page. So the comments made here that he is a “prophet” must be true as he has referred to himself as such.

    http://www.ibethel.org/site/itineraries/krisvallotton
    This is a link to his scheduled itinerary which shows who he runs with and where he is headed. Lots of info on this link.

    http://www.ibethel.org/site/
    home page where he pastors.

    It also occurred to me after I read his comment that maybe someone else left this message in his name. The e-mail comes from ibethel.com…so…

    As far as I can see I have covered all the bases here. The rest will be up to Kris, pastor, teacher, revivalist, prophet.

  15. Woops! I didn’t realize this gentleman was from the west coast. My bad.

    Kris, I’d still like to know if you’re an advocate of Contemplative spirituality.

    SP

  16. Anyone from So Cal?

    Does anyone know if there a connection between Crowder, Bill Johnson, and C.Peter Wagner “Head Apostle of NAR”?

    Bill Johnson is coming to Church on the Way, in Van Nuys, Ca. “Kings University” in Nov 9, 2010 and I’m trying to find info. to expose the errors they teach.

    http://www.jackhayford.com/alc_conference/index.html

    IHOP, Contemplative Spirituality, Emergent Church, and NAR have already influenced this denomination, but know they’ve started promoting this movement. I’ve separated from them, but have many friends that are not believing that they are false.

    I’ve tried to share lies of these groups, but people are flocking to IHOPP and now Bill Johnson and his Spiritual teaching school.

  17. Yes, I am from S. California, I just don’t live there anymore.

    Yes, these people and organizations are all connected and influenced by Peter Wagner’s NAR. Beni Johnson recently did a conference with Lilly Crowder and Stephanie Dunn. We have seen a coming together of these organizations and others over this past year. The influence of Bethel seems to be growing and influencing many people and taking over churches like crazy. I’ve had many, many comments from people who are in this situation. You will find some information here and also from other sites on my blogroll – Heralding Truth, Sadparent, Gospel Masquerade are a few of them. People are very caught up in the emotionalism of it all and don’t realize they are being led down a very dangerous path, away from the Lord. These teachings are very man centered, puffed up and full of pride as they become more about the person, their gifts and ministry than about the true Gospel of Jesus Christ.

    If you have questions, please ask. :)

  18. Oh, I just looked at the link. Dallas Willard is not even a Christian. He is a mystic who practices contemplative prayer and things not found in the word. He heavily influences Christians as does his pal Richard Foster. Seeing these names together should wake people up. If you would like more info on him, go to that catagory and also please check Apprising Ministries and Lighthouse Trails and Bob DeWaay.

  19. I just watched a video for the first time that featured John Crowder, on YouTube. I have never heard of him until tonight, thanks to this site. To put it bluntly, it may have been the most ghastly thing I have ever seen thus far from someone who claims to represent Christianity. Worse than Bentley, Benny, and Copeland combined. I’m speechless and I don’t even know what to say. How can one even refute this in an intelligent way, given how utterly preposterous it is? I’ve but two things going thru my mind right now:

    1. The great apostasy has now undoubtedly offically begun.
    2. Are we allowed to pray imprecatory prayers anymore?

    Dead serious; all the best… Scott

  20. I can’t see how anyone would take him seriously as a Christian and is why I began this article the way I did. I was hoping those involved with Bill Johnson would open their eyes, seeing as they have joined together.

    Someone told me once that God is allowing all of this to take place for a reason. It boggles my mind that these people don’t just drop dead but then I remember my own participation in the false prophetic, healing, dream interpretation, etc., and I am glad it did not happen. I pray for people to see the truth and I don’t see any other way to pray for them as disgusting as they are. But I would say to ask for guidance in prayer and remember that God still loves them, as unimaginable as that seems – His ways are not our ways, but higher. :)

    Blessings Scott. :)

  21. Just to add, Bentley also believes in and promotes spiritual drunkeness. “Joel’s Bar” as it was, was open for business during Lakeland when he and his music leader Roy told people to “belly up to the bar”. I’ve often heard him and others, like Rodney Howard Browne claim you have to drink, have to be drunk, etc. These people are under the influence of the demonic thinking it is the filling of the Holy Spirit. Most anyone who is involved in charismania has experienced this drunkenness. Crowder is far more indecent than what we have seen from anyone else this far.

  22. Hi MK,

    Just to add, I also watched Bentley give major props to Kenneth Hagin as being a significant influence on him. I just sighed and wondered if anybody in the crowd even had a clue (you could hear some faint cheers).

    Well, I know, just kidding about the imprecatory comment..tongue in cheek of course. Thanks for bringing it home.

  23. A couple of other observations – I noticed Crowder and Bentley say the word “Glory” the exact same way…and the guy on the right in the video at the top has a downright scary (I want to say demon-possessed) look on his face throughout the video.

  24. Hi mkayla,

    Just to add that Brandon Barthrop is absolutely the worst that I have ever seen, although he is not as well known as J. Crowder. I honestly believe that he has gone over the edge so far that he seems mentally unstable. We can only pray that these people come to their senses & have a real life changing experience from our Lord!

  25. Bentley and those he learned from love claiming mantles of those who have died. William Branham and Kathryn Kuhlman are two. It has been exposed that Kenneth Hagin plagiarized the writings of EW Kenyon and lied about the visitations of Jesus. These people have quite a bit in common but to their own detriment.

  26. I think it is becoming more and obvious that these “ministers” are actually Satans’ ministers. I believe they are actual warlocks or something.

  27. They are repulsive and I can’t see how any true believer would make explanation or excuse for their behavior claiming them to be believers. I think I first learned of them from your site. I have listened to them a few times on video. Their behavior looks more like drug induced sexual exploits than it does gospel preaching or true worship. How can their behavior be excused??? This is another group of fools who seduce the young into mimicking their foulness.

  28. McNelly, I’ve decided to NOT approve your comment for fear it may mislead others who come here for the truth. You may live in the “bible belt” but that does not make you an authority on the word of God. If this sounds harsh to you please consider those you named as approved – Crowder, Johnson, Jones. None of these men speak for the truth written in the scriptures. Instead they stand for supernatural experiences and twist the precious word of God to mean what they want it to, always to support their lies to make them look like they know what they speak of. I have spent a good deal of time refuting the lies behind word of faith, supernatural experiences and other “esoteric” ideas and theology that these men stand for and they are not living, speaking or ushering in anything of God’s. You may be “walking in it” as you claim. I have walked out of it.

    These lies have nothing to do with denomination and every thing to do with the bible taken out of context. Many are being deceived and much of this started in the “bible belt” community! The only thing that will change the world as you state is the gospel of Jesus Christ preached to salvation. God’s perfect plan was Jesus Christ and He has come, died and has risen. He is seated in heaven with the Father until He again comes for us. So, God has done for us all He is going to.

    Please take the time to listen and then read the word comparing their teachings and ideas to the bible. You will find these men do not speak the truth. They do not speak of Jesus of the bible, but of another. Just like we were warned by the savior.

  29. Greetings: Jesus Culture is associated with Bethel and Bill Johnson. Our youth group loves there music but now I’m concerned about what they actually believe. Any info that links Jesus Culture to mysticism would be helpful. God Bless

  30. HI. without doing some research I would say they are along the same beliefs as Bethel and the rest of Charismania. Worship as they understand it has an important place in accomplishing the things of God, as it prepares the spirit realm to respond according to their utterances. Music plays an important role, because to them it is not just simple music, but a power source. This is why so many meetings and services are started with extended worship times. It is also an avenue to prepare the mind for suggestion, to accept bad teaching and false prophetic words, It plays on the mind as well as the emotions. Being a part of Bethel you can expect that their musicians would be heavily into dominion theology as well, and the supernatural.

    I would do a google search and start listening to their words and also find any links to interviews, etc. I don’t think you would have to spend much time in finding the truth.

    How did your youth group come to find and listen to their music?

  31. Let’s see if I can answer your questions. I don’t know John nor do I follow his ministry so I don’t have an opinion about what he believes or what he does. I am to busy with my own life to worry about what everyone else is doing. Plus I make enough mistakes myself so I really don’t have a place to make strong judgments about others. He has never been invited to speak at Bethel. One of our core values at Bethel is that our friendship aren’t based on agreement but on relationship. Jesus hung out with sinners not because he agreed with them but because he loved them. Of course he had the same kind of folks blogging about him.(he is a drunkered, a friend of sinners) ..guilt by association I guess is generations deep. I wonder how right someone has to be before you can be friends with them? Of course this would assume that all of our doctrine is perfect. In the good old days if you had a problem someone you used to have to talk to them personally and if you couldn’t work out your differences than you took someone with you to try again. Apparently, that is an outdated concept and now you can just share your opinion about someone you never met to 1000s of people so that that can also share their strong opinions about people that don’t know either. I have had people write long blogs about what I believe and who I support and never once ask me what I think. They even write about where I spend my money and how I bought my house with the ALL the money I made from my books sales. Of course I bought my house the year before my first book was published. It’s okay…just keep writing nasty stuff about people, who knows some of it might even be true. And of course if you do a conference with someone than you must agree with everything they believe and the way they behave or why would you ever be seen in the same room with them. This would all be so funny if it wasn’t so sad. I pray that none of you who write so freely about the faults of others on public forums has it happen to you. It’s really painful. We are real people with feeling and families. Our spouses and kids have to live with the stuff you guys write about us whether it is true or not.

  32. If you are Kris Vallotton, I am amazed at your response. Being a pastor it is your God given duty to know the difference between a true person of God and an imposter, a sheep from a wolf. It is your obligation to warn others of such people, including yourself to steer clear and have nothing to do with them. The scripture is quite obvious. But you – too busy, too wrapped up in your own thing to know about John Crowder? Too bad, because the rest of us have no problem pegging him for what he is – a nut. How is it that anyone can speak the name of Jesus Christ and men like you and those you run with cannot see the lie behind it all? Why are you so quick to allow these types in when the word is so clear on keeping them out? You have given no answers, only a mess of mushy mouth, useless words. We may as well turn them into another verse for We Are The World, join hands and sing it together.

    I know what you and Bill Johnson teach. I was a part of this miserable pagan “supernatural dreams, visions, healings, power…” for a few years. I took it serious enough to invest hundreds of dollars to the great and false teachings, books, cd’s, dvd’s. I was a part of the IAHR in a local healing room where I rose the the position of Assoc Director, with a team of intercessors, operating in the prophetic, dreams and visions, called a seer-prophet. I know first hand from this experience and by the power of the Holy Spirit, the mighty one and only God these teachings are lies. They are pagan, brought from witchcraft, the occult and other religions, having nothing to do whatsoever with the shed blood of Christ, or His power, His ways or His teachings.

    Yes, Jesus hung out with sinners because He was the Jewish Messiah who came to lead the people back to God. He did not condone sin. He did not let false teachers aka Pharisees have their way. He proved them publicly for who and what they were. The cross is not about relationships, it is the place of repentance. God’s people should meet together, but they should never, for the sake of relationship, entertain false teachers or prophets. That is exactly what we are seeing here.

    How dare you whine and complain here to me and my readers that you are a real person with families who have feelings! Don’t we all? Will this be your stand before God on the day you meet Him? If pastors were doing their true jobs, there would not be a need to reveal false teachers, teachings and false prophets such as the bunch you are associated with on blogs such as mine. If you are a true pastor, a true man of God then preach the scripture, the cross, repentance and leave this witchcraft behind.

  33. Kris
    It’s always difficult to try and plead your cause to someone who has been a part of the very belief system that your still defending and operating in. Playing the victim card doesn’t work, neither does the humble (comes across as self righteous). For those of us who have been delivered out of these false teachings and brought to our knees in repentance before our Lord, the pain and grief we have suffered because of the wrong we believed and bought into by men such as yourself, finally gives way to a peace that only comes from knowing the truth in Christ. You see we know what you believe, we once believe it too, we know what you’ve seen, heard, feel, experience….been there done that, it fails the truth test, it fails the scripture test. You should be concerned for all of us who were once followers of men such as yourself, what has happened to us??? Aren’t you all the least bit concerned for us and why we have left??? Many of us were extremely involved in ministries such as Bethel’s, and suddenly there is a moment of clarity in the “supernatural mayhem” where God gets through to us and we leave all this garbage behind. More and more everyday are waking up ummmm! Have to agree with M’Kayla, it’s witchcraft, praying for you and those still following you.

  34. I have a brother who attends Bethel and I am pleased to read the last comment. It gives me hope that God has gotten through to many and I am confident that He will continue! Thank you MKalya for your words to Kris. Pastors have a big responsibility to do just what you said…lead us on the right path. Satan is doing a work in churches today. Makes me sad to see people I love being mislead by false teachings. My prayer… Lord give us and those we love YOUR wisdom to follow YOU closer each day. Show us YOUR TRUTH. God you are mightier than any ‘spirit or feeling’ we might have today, God may YOU be revealed today in our lives and may YOU get the GLORY! May we know we are full of your Spirit when we demonstrate YOUR fruits, Love, Joy, Peace, Patience, Kindness, Goodness, Faithfulness, and Self-Control and not the crazy behavior that is being done in your Name today in churches across America. Forgive us when we stray, Good Shepard bring us back onto your path!

  35. Kris, (if that really is Kris Valloton)
    You refer to Matthew 18 (without actually giving the chapter & verse, nor even the book!) where we are told what to do if a BROTHER sins against us PERSONALLY. It is clear from the context that this is something that no-one else would be aware of. The thrust of the passage is that we are to keep such things as quiet as possible and to seek to work things out between the two parties only. This is so vastly different to what the Word of God says in Titus 1:13 (in the context of the whole chapter); “Wherefore REBUKE them SHARPLY, that they may be sound in the faith;”
    There are other scriptures I could quote, but your extremely vague way of referring to the teachings of the Lord Jesus and His Word make it unlikely that you will love the Truth enough to seek for Him with all your heart. I pray that I’m wrong and that you will go away and search the scriptures to see if these things be so, like the Bereans did. Please believe that I bear you no ill-will, but that I grieve for the blindness that I see in your writing above. I realise this is painful for you, but as Proverbs 27:6 says; “Faithful are the wounds of a friend; but the kisses of an enemy are deceitful. The Bible is FULL of God’s dealings with His servants, where He has caused them pain and suffering for His purposes and also for their good, although they often didn’t see it that way. We don’t hate you, or anyone else at Bethel, but we do hate the heresy and false teaching, because that is what we are commanded to do by the Word of God. That’s a logical outcome of loving the Truth, that you will hate the lie. I pray that the Lord would be gracious to you and lead you into His Truth.

  36. I wonder if the people of Bethel or their schools, when seeing this type of “ministry”, would say – yea and amen, or shrug and say “to each his own”, or turn in disgust? Have they been taught scripture in such a way that they can discern what is of God? Is that not the primary job of a pastor – to shepherd their flock? To teach them the Bible so they will know if something is from the Holy Spirit – whose primary work is to lead us to repentence and teach us scripture?

  37. But these do not teach from the bible as written. They teach from a twisted version of meaning and rely on experience and the voice of prophecy for guidance. They become more entrenched in the deceptions and doctrines of demons as time goes by.

  38. Kris,
    Since you have invited questions – here’s one (or two): why do you permit BSSM students to go to graves to recieve impartation? Do you practice this yourself?

    -Bill

  39. I am curious to know why people are so against Bill Johnson? Why does the church today look nothing like the church Jesus set up? Because people like to argue doctrine, which isn’t loving God. And if Demons shudder at the name of Jesus, how can the healings and ministry stand? Jesus said a house divided against itself cannot stand. We as Christians are now sons and daughters of the King, making us royalty.

  40. The difference is true doctrine and false. If you are curious about BJ, I suggest you listen to/read his teaching and compare it with the bible and then you will know the truth. Christ warned that many would come in His name and that many would be deceived. Demons are only subject when the true Christ is being presented, not the false one. There is lots of info on my blog and the links that will prove Johnson is a false teacher.

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