I was very much touched by this writing and wanted to share it with you all. So this is for all- for we all suffer loss of a loved ones in our lives. The pain is there regardless of who they were. We know that nothing can take their place in our lives; that void is deep and long. Praise to the One – Jesus Christ – who holds us together during those times. Let us hold to the promise that grief is only for a time; an eternity of joy awaits at His coming. Maranatha!
From Redeemed Hippie’s Blog here
“Mama, are you going to die tonight?”
“No, not tonight.”
“What about Daddy? Is he going to die tonight?”
“When? When are you all going to die?”
“Doll Baby, we all have to die sometime. But Daddy and I are not going to die tonight. Hush, now. Go to sleep. I’m here.”
Every night it was the same conversation. Each time, my mother was patient sitting on my bedside, waiting for me to go to sleep before she left the room.
I was just a babe back then and outgrew her bedtime assurances. But the fear of her death haunted me all my life.
If I had only thought to ask my mother the same questions the last time I saw her back in October. Could she have told me? Would she have told me she was getting ready to die?
For months, I have asked myself where is my mother? Night time; bedtime is the worst time. I see her face and remember her voice, laughter and oh there is so much I remember. I can no longer pick up the phone and hear her voice giving me that instant assurance that she is alright. Where is she, God?
Painful words to have to speak – but I say them anyway — for they are true; the day will come when it will not matter to me where she is.
But for now, it is a type of torment to wonder where a loved one is after leaving this earth. See, a few weeks before she died, she and I were talking about the things of God. Well, at least I was trying to. She had brought the subject up and I tried to take it to salvation. She was getting irritated. And even told me, “Maybe, I’m going to hell.” She said it kind of angry and kind of bitter. I felt something like ice go through me and a wall went up. How Lord do I respond to this? I had no words. So we dropped the subject.
I did not know what she knew at the time…that her heart was at 40 percent capacity. I did not know the things she must have had on her mind. But God knew. No doubt, she was afraid and she was preparing to meet her Maker. She was not sounding a trumpet. It was as personal as the God she believed in. Most of her generation is like that: strong, silent, independent and determined.
We had talked many times over the past few years about salvation. She knew it was not church that saved anyone. She knew it was not being good enough that gave you entrance to heaven. She knew it was not having your name on a membership roll. She knew all these things. She knew that it was what Jesus did on the cross.
My mother was not someone I could fellowship with. The God she believed in was a personal God. As a precious sister pointed out to me: Our parent’s generation belief in God was personal. They didn’t sound trumpets. They just believed.
I’m glad my mother did not have to contend with false teachers of the past few decades. She would have been believing in a jesus contrary to the Word of God. She knew a phony when she saw one and no way would she have acted a fool by getting drunk in the spirit, barking like a dog, clucking like a chicken, smoking the Holy Ghost or trying to have her best life now. Surely, if she had been a follower of any of the modern day heretics, I would have some real cause of alarm. Her belief in God was simple: Jesus died on a cross for us and we can only hope we go to heaven.
More than once — in my self-righteousness – I would tell her, “But Mom, we can have full assurance.” I understand now. I understand what she meant. Too many times, we take salvation for granted.
We are told to work out our salvation with fear and trembling. I can’t speak for anyone else, but for myself, I’ve had some fear and trembling the past few months. Yet, still not enough or I would find it in myself to repent for every wrong thought or thing I do. Like my mother before me, I fall upon the mercy of God.
God is not a fair God. It was not fair that His only begotten Son had to die for MY sins. Yet, at the same time, God is a just God. He sees all and knows all. All through her life, He saw my mother’s heart. The past few months of her life, He knew what was in her. He saw how she was preparing herself to meet Him. Looking back, even I can see it now. If I had not been so wrapped up in what I believed was going to take place in the world at the time, I may have seen it then. But I didn’t see it and as one friend told me: “It was probably meant that way. If you had known, I don’t think you could have handled it.”
So, I lay in bed and wonder. I ask God, where is she? I get no answer. All I get is; when we see Him face to face we shall be like Him. That is when it will not matter to me anymore.
When we become just like Him, we will have the justice of God so ingrained in us that any preceived notions of what we believe to be right and wrong will no longer matter.
Did you know that in hell there is love? Yes, it is true. The rich man who asked Abraham to give him just a drop of water also begged him tell his loved ones about the place he was in. He loved them so such that he did not want them there with him!
I have comforted myself the past few months in remembering the last few weeks of her life. A subtle change had taken place in her. She became kind of sweet. Kind of soft. She still had her days of not feeling well, days of being stubborn as a mule and spunky to the point that her children did not know how to deal with her, but it was if a part of her had resigned herself in trusting something greater than herself and greater than those around her.
I have comforted myself the past few months in remembering not how good of a person my mother was. But in the fact that she knew the simple truth: Jesus is the perfect sacrifice.
One thing I do know — no matter where she is — if she could speak to me, she would tell me: Tell them. Tell my children and all those who loved me the truth. Tell all of humanity. Tell them about Jesus. Tell them the truth.
Until that day, when I see my Savior and Redeemer face-to-face, I will always wonder where loved ones are, after they depart from this earth. But until then, I continue to comfort myself with this thought: When I can not understand His hand, I will trust His heart.
His heart for my mother was this: For I know the thoughts that I think toward you, says the LORD, thoughts of peace and not of evil, to give you a future and a hope. Then you will call upon Me and go and pray to Me, and I will listen to you. — Jeremiah 29:11,12 –
I can not help but believe that the last few weeks of my mother’s life she called upon the Lord in ways that she never had before. She was a strong gutsy woman full of vim and vinegar. Yet, she reached a point in her life where nothing and no one else would do, but God. A place where we all will reach sooner or later.
It has taken me months to write this. I still have not done the truth justice. Someday, when we see Him face-to-face, when we will be like Him, ALL things will be revealed. But until then, I will trust in Him. His ways are higher than mine and He is perfect in all of His ways.
My mother was right. We have such a beautiful hope in God. His mercies are new every morning. Our life truly is but a vapor. Nothing really matters but the truth. The truth is God loved my mother, saw her heart in all things, knew her inside and out, and He IS a righteous judge of us all.
May God be exalted in times of grief!
Thank you for posting that. And may His peace and comfort surround and fill you during this time.
Thanks cherylu – 🙂
I so relate to this! my grandmother died a few days after michael jackson and I was in turmoil over where she was. I was the last family member to see her the night before. And just this past year my dad died on christmas eve! I’m numb but deep down I feel guilty because I feel if I know I’m not right with God, then how can I lead my dad to Him. I read from the Word just before he died (he had cancer and swine flu) and I just hope his heart softened to accept the Gospel. I always get paranoid that I somehow killed him and my grandmother. I was also in the WoF churches e.t.c. and after I came out at 17 years old, I had problems with thoughts like I kept thinking that I was the antichrist. I’m now 20 but I still struggle with it!
Lee, my heart goes out to you in your losses!
Repentance and the forgiveness that comes from it cannot be matched by anything on earth. And no amount of lying from the enemy whether thru his whispers or bad teaching can take that away. If you have repented rest assured that you are forgiven. Spend time renewing your mind in the word with the assurance you are free. At 17 you were so very young and impressionable and you still are. No matter what went on during those years you were never the antichrist and you are not responsible for the deaths of your family members. Only God has the power to give life and to take it and he does this in his own timing. I too was with my grandmother when she passed, and my daughter, only 19, died a couple of weeks later. Early last year my husband’s son died too. I can relate to feelings of guilt and insecurity but I cling to the one who I know is true. If God allowed our precious ones to die then he did so with his own intentions and we rest in the fact that he knew it was going to happen. There is great peace in that can only be found in him.
John 14:26-27 (New King James Version)
26 But the Helper, the Holy Spirit, whom the Father will send in My name, He will teach you all things, and bring to your remembrance all things that I said to you. 27 Peace I leave with you, My peace I give to you; not as the world gives do I give to you. Let not your heart be troubled, neither let it be afraid.
1 John 1:9 (New King James Version)
9 If we confess our sins, He is faithful and just to forgive us our sins and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness.
There is no truth to be found in word of faith teachings. We do not possess the power they claim, we cannot call things to exist or to not exist, we cannot speak anything – life or death- into existence. If you need help in this dangerous area of false teaching please let me know.
Mkayla thanks so much! It really has been a tough 3 years for me. I grew up in the Word but like so many drifted away then went back to the church I knew from young: it was a pentecostal WoF e.t.c you know the whole story lool! I was talking to Deborah on Discerningtheworld and this is what I had to say:
Let me give you my spiritual background
and history and a bit about me.
Well, it first started when i went back to a pentecostal church that I had
been going to when I was younger and gave my life Christ. the way I gave
my life to Christ was by doing a sinners prayer BUT there was a work of
god in my heart as my desire for the Word grew. that was 5 years ago when
i was 15. I’m now 20. It was then that you know when your young and fresh
and vibrant your on the milk of the Word, your hungry for the meat also, I
wanted to receive the Holy Spirit so I did….and I started following His
leading and I spoke tongues. Then come 2007 and God started to speak to
me how the world is coming to an end very soon and that even then, the
antichrist was preparing to step onto the world stage and even now he is
here among us! At this time my aunty gave me a book on spiritual warfare
by Brown called “He Came To Set The Captives Free”. It was during this
period that I started getting attacked and having fear well up in me and
no matter how much I rebuked it it will get intenser! I could sense evil
spirits or unclean spirits in certain areas and everytime I traveled I had
a spiritual run-in with certain people who could discern that I was of
God. At this time, I fell into sexual sin (homosexuality) and I was
ashamed. I did not like it and it was wrong but I was and am going
through puberty moments and I repented but kept falling back into it ( I
did not do anything more just pornography).
Also around this time, in church and personal life I started having
problems. it was december 2008, the month and year my life really took a
plunge for the worse. I tell you, thats the worse year of my life leading
right into 2009. because I had a huge fight with my aunties after a
family misunderstanding. I was defending one of my other aunties and my
other two started verbally abusing and almost physically assaulting me.
It seems that fear just hit me in waves. my heart strated pounding fast,
i shook and became a different person, always fearing people. Needless to
say I was glad to get back to university outside London (I started
university in september 2008). It was also at this time that the church I
was going to as I began reading Brown’s books, was going downhill. I
could detect it in my spirit and tell that things spiritually were faulty
and strange. Like the pastor there would have visions constantly which I
knew from before when I was young and I accepted as normal I never thought
anything wrong as a matter of fact I thought ” wow, he has seen Jesus,
been taken up to heaven and he has a strong anointing” like literally, I
thought our ministry was special and really powerful. no one had the
anointing like us and no one was more favoured by God than us.” thats
what was in the psyche. but as I started to really get serious for Christ,
something clicked that it just wasn’t right. He once in a service called
me up and said that he had a vision of me. He started by saying “I had
vision of you – you know what you do?” and I stupidly answered yes but
really Deborah I should not have said that because I had no clue what he
was saying. anyway He said/and prophesied “I saw a crowd of people and I
saw stones coming out of your mouth and their faces were heavy. if you
would draw near to God then He would draw near to you and the grace you
will receive , people will marvel, what will come out of your mouth will
be likened unto Gold…this will happen one day, and you will remember
that that man who told you so, you will say “he saw something”” I wasn’t
sure what to make of this prophecy as he even laid hands on me (without
another time, he laid hands on me, and waited for one minute and then
without my doing so, my legs began to wobble like jelly. and he then said
“you see, He’s standing right by you” but I didn’t feel any presence of
God at all!
Back to my sin of pornography, as I became fixated on this, the enemy took
advantage and I started to fall in my faith. I failed my first year at
university and had to lie to get my way back in (using the excuse that
because my grandmother died I was not able to concentrate) and also my
grandmother died a few days after michael jackson last year and the night
before I went onto pornorgaphy and had evil thoughts and think I may have
done something spiritually which might have killed her! I know it sounds
stupid. She was saved but she was disabled but she was strong; I just
feel like what if she went to hell and somehow, because of my falseness
and living in sin, she was never really saved (i did not minister to her
my aunty’s friend did but my aunty testifies she did gladly except Jesus
saying “I’ve waited my whole life for this”) But i just think because I
don’t want people and family looking up to me when inside I’m a wicked
liar, deceitful blaspheming sexually immoral unprofitable servant who may
not have been a child of God after all.
I started to decide that I wanted to get out og the church I was going
because it really turned into a prison! it was a cult. I never told
anyone I was leaving but since I was at university, that was my excuse.
anyway, when my grandmother died, the pastor (same guy who laid hands on
me) offered to conduct the funeral (BIG MISTAKE!!!) It caused family
problems and because my aunty (who is my mother’s cousin) who goes to the
church as well, she left because she saw the way the church had been
going and how GOod showed her the methods they were using where almost
occultic and had problems with he pastor and so on the morning of the
funeral, he refused to conduct it unless she left the church grounds snd
said he was going to call the police. and so with the body in the casket,
it looked really bad. anyway we rushed through the funeral and then got
back to the church with some more problems then after that in 2009 i found
out I had failed my retakes and then so had to use my grandmother’s death
as an excuse. my aunty who had left the church got in contact and we were
just both talking and saying the church was a deception and talking for
hours I mean I WAS SURE THIS MAN had at one time walked with Christ but I
just don’t know. with all the miracle which Isaw with ym own eyes and
the reports of healings and people being raised from the dead I just
couldn’t believe he wa false. MY aunty said he was though. she even had
dreams of him and the congregation praying against her and even that he
had a third eye on his wrist. At this time, we found out that Jerry
Savelle and Tommy Tenney had been invited to preach there and so I just
thought “bye bye” no more church for me”!
And to think I have spoken to loads of my friends of Jesus!
Also on the spiritual side of things, I have had very weird experiences
where for a brief instant God has allowed me to experience the reality of
the spirit realm and how evil spirits hinder us all our life on this
earth. I happened one such night at 3am where as I was falling asleep my
body started to paralise (sleep paralysis) and I heard a growling
guttural voice say “YOU WILL BOW DOWN TO ME” and as i couldn’t open my
mouth in my spirit I resisted and said no and I tried to say “Jesus” but
the thing feared my saying the Lord’s name until i got angry and it left.
My body was shaking but this was a different experience to when i was
younger (as young as 3 yrs) when I had paralysis but not to this extent!
Also I find I can discern people and what manner of spirit they are of and
it’s like they can tell but they don’t like me!
Theres more but I hope this should give you an idea. I just feel like
life is draining me. my zest for education, simplicity and God is
wearing. I’m sure anytime soon God WILL judged me and He will be right
to. I just feel its not fair sometimes cos of the influence of these evil
spirits. Why me!! Why is it when I encounter them they seem to reveal a
vexed hatred and depise for me but through others they would coax me and
be nice to be! It’s like I feel society and people watch me and want to
So thats my jumbled up 3-4 years of life in a nut shell. It really feels
like the end for me Deborah. I also last year woke up saying I needed
Jesus after voices in my mind (that sounded like God) said I can never be
accepted back to Jesus because I have blasphemed the Holy spirit (I got
angry and started swearing to God because of life and pressure) and that
God had made me reprobate and that now I have to serve Satan because God
is sovereign and he has ordained this. Also when I pray, my words get
mixed up. when i intend to say “Jesus” I end up saying “satan” and
vice-versa. one time in the shower I was praying and the thought popped
in my mind that “Jesus is a liar” I was horrified! Also I have felt
there is always a presence standing behind me always controlling the way I
behave like I can’t function well and be myself. I also feel like God
expects me to be perfect and its like I get an impression that if I don’t
do this and that He will cast me into hell and its like, I CAN’T BE ME!
I’m expected to be this and that but I can’t live up to it.
so yeah…I’ve left out some other stuff but this is what I have felt in
my life for 3 years. Oh and by the way, check out my church I was going
to…I want you to see of you detect anything false about it please
heres the link to it….-
Mkayla, Thanks for the support! I’m 20 now and my dad just dying I just don’t know…one good thing that comes out of it is continually working out our salvation with fear and trembling. Oh Mkayla I don’t want to be a hypocrite, I’m wicked, vile and just as worse as any of the other sinners out there! I came out of my church because they spiritually abused me, I felt like they took the mick out of me since I was young and I began reading Rebecca Brown books (Whom i’m now told is false e.t.c.) it seems falsehood is on every side. What is dangerous is when a Christian runs from one obvious false setting to one that is subtle. Example, people leave Mormonism and go straight into charismania thinking that because 99% teachings are sound, that 1% won’t affect them in the spiritual long-run.
I just feel guilty and I can’t go on thinking that since I was in the WoF church doctrine I’d do stupid stuff like command God in Jesus’ name e.t.c. and tell my grnadmother what we did in church; I really deceived her in certain matters.
Lee, I am holding your first comment to ask if you want it published or not.
Do you think you have been forgiven? This is very important and by the sound of it I would say either you don’t believe you have been or that you continue to live under the guilt allowing the past to become the present. While you may have walked away from WOF, the destruction of the false teaching and its influences are still a part of your life. This should not be.
The things that you described previous, the fear, the discernment of spirits are not of God. I believe fear plays a big part in this deception. I know of other peope who had great fear and then later claimed to have been “delivered” from it after some prayer session or impartation. I think it is part of satans game in all of this. I too had fear, over some strange things and I could never figure it out until after I came out and realized after some time the fear was no longer there. It is a lie. Experience aside, because or faith is not about experience, its about the truth, the word states –
2 Timothy 1:7 For God has not given us a spirit of fear, but of power and of love and of a sound mind.
1 John 4:18 There is no fear in love; but perfect love casts out fear, because fear involves torment. But he who fears has not been made perfect in love.
As for the discernment of spirits, I want to be careful because I do believe God can reveal truth to us. But if you are feeling evil presences that create fear, confusion, etc. if they manifest in ways that are not characteristic of the freedom we have in Christ, then you are probably under the sway of satan still. Not necessarily because of you personally, but because he may still have you in his web. The reason I am against these kinds of manifestations is because we don’t get that kind of picture in the word.
Coming out of this is very difficult. Some seem to break away, but others seem to struggle. I did for a good amount of time. There was no support to go to; no one that I knew of that had been there that could offer help. But, duh. Our help comes from the Lord, right? He is longsuffering toward us, full of grace and mercy. And if we ask for forgiveness, he is faithful to do so immediately. It is the enemy that keeps the lies going – those thoughts, feelings, even manifestations.
It is the work of the Holy Spirit to lead us into truth and I believe those who come out of these false teachings have done so because of Him only. So, knowing what we do about the Lord would it be his way to lead us and and then abandon us? No. And tho what we have been involved in sounds very much like blaspheme of the Holy Spirit, I don’t think it is. I don’t believe those who blaspheme will be found among the children of God – the redeemed. This too is something I struggled with. Its a biggie, but in context of the truth of the word I don’t believe it lines up. I don’t believe God would lead out blasphemers just to turn His back on them. Christ died for all our sins and we, having been saved because of our faith and belief in Jesus Christ as the Messiah, as the Son of God proves that we are under the blood of Christ. He will never leave or forsake His own. We may leave and forsake Him but this side of eternity I do not believe that he gives up on us.
I found great help in the word – reading it over and over with deliberate intent. Turning to the Lord anytime something of the old way began to rise up in me. It was a battle, and I can’t say why that is exactly, exept that satan does not want to let go. But he must because he is subject to the authority of the one true God! Remember he had to get the Lord’s permission to do his deeds to Job! There’s a clue there. Jesus triumphed over the enemy at the cross, this is why he stated, “it is finished” – the battle is won because of him.
There will be these thoughts and things that arise for a time. The focus is Christ, His word, His power to heal and restore you.
This article was of great help to me and I referred to it often. Please take the time to use it.
Remember Ephesians 6, after having done all – STAND – STAND!
I pray for your freedom in Christ that is already yours. 🙂
Thank you Mkayla. Yes you may be right, I may have run around thinking it was God but at times, I felt this type of spirit battle feeling control was demonic and was veryyy dangerous. At times, my heart would beat fast when I want to do something or just because I feel a strange presence (which feels divine though) pressure me into doing something. I always get thoughts of judgement if I don’t do it. Yes, I want you to publish it so people can see the correspondence but also my experience. I don’t believe I have been forgiven because part of my experience has been me sinning also because I felt God did not want me and th edvil telling me I could never return to God since I have done the utmost horrible things. Mkayla, I know some things there are very open, but I want people to know that we must all be humble and honest before men, because God knows ANYWAY so it does no good. 🙂
“Do you think you have been forgiven? This is very important and by the sound of it I would say either you don’t believe you have been or that you continue to live under the guilt allowing the past to become the present. While you may have walked away from WOF, the destruction of the false teaching and its influences are still a part of your life. This should not be.”
-I’m beginning to think I’m not even born again and saved. This is because coming out of such falsehood, I look at what I have achevied or done or progressed in my Christian walk and then think …”I aint even saved” all this fruit works can be rotten as well and look good but is forced or done by the flesh, with all this healing. I have experienced hatred, anger, fear resentment towards people and life and even had unintentional wicked thoughts about people. I often think I have some power that makes people susceptible to me thus me saying I think I killed my family member. I even think sometimes that maybe I’m a satanist because of these thoughts and so I try to isolate myself from family and my relatives notice that and say how I act weird but I do that to protect them from me and my potential deceptiveness. Also I find when I encounter people I am spiritually aware and don’t feel comfortable with some people. I always get this battley feeling in the sense of atmosphere and area e.t.c. and just think some people are out to get me and I know that some know what I think about them. Its like their spirit doesn’t like yours and vice versa. ut back to my walk. in that church I felt like there was, half me, half that WoF spirit then there was me being decietful because I thought you had to perform their way in order to be thought of as born again. I’m sure God can save me in false setting, there defintely was a work of God, or maybe was that an illusion, I spread the Word but as I loom back I did it out of fear mostly that God would find me disobedeint as oppoosed to producing true desire to spread the Word; i loved to speak like those WoF preachers saying healing can come now e.t.c. the false manifestations are still there. another thing, I haven’t read my bible in over three years (properly) I just skim and don’t have a desire except when I listen to preaching or read articles up here (even then, I don’t really go spend time reading) I wonder if it is because of my backslidding and me losing the fear of Lord.
“The things that you described previous, the fear, the discernment of spirits are not of God. I believe fear plays a big part in this deception. I know of other peope who had great fear and then later claimed to have been “delivered” from it after some prayer session or impartation. I think it is part of satans game in all of this. I too had fear, over some strange things and I could never figure it out until after I came out and realized after some time the fear was no longer there. It is a lie. Experience aside, because or faith is not about experience, its about the truth, the word states – ”
-Yep! it was all a setup. good of you to spot that. that fear feeling, I try to always wonder why I was made to feel that way. The Brown books said demons inject fear emotions into you and you have to rebuke them. But Deborah from Discerningtheworld says Brown is false and I can kinda see that now. I could never figure it out also. It was really bad, like I couldn’t breath when my heart sped up. It was like I was going to have a heart attack sometimes.
“Coming out of this is very difficult. Some seem to break away, but others seem to struggle. I did for a good amount of time. There was no support to go to; no one that I knew of that had been there that could offer help. But, duh. Our help comes from the Lord, right? He is longsuffering toward us, full of grace and mercy. And if we ask for forgiveness, he is faithful to do so immediately. It is the enemy that keeps the lies going – those thoughts, feelings, even manifestations”
-i struggle. even now. its not so bad but 2008/9 was the worst. I almost thought of suicide or going into mental hospital. that bad, and I’m very young. yes the Lord is merciful but my perception of Him was warped because I never knew if I was venting my anger to Him or to Satan so the feeling or ‘divine’ presence got angry with me and forced me to just get on with my life and accept my state.
“I found great help in the word – reading it over and over with deliberate intent. Turning to the Lord anytime something of the old way began to rise up in me. It was a battle, and I can’t say why that is exactly, exept that satan does not want to let go. But he must because he is subject to the authority of the one true God! Remember he had to get the Lord’s permission to do his deeds to Job! There’s a clue there. Jesus triumphed over the enemy at the cross, this is why he stated, “it is finished” – the battle is won because of him.”
-a battle it is. I always feel struggle in my spirit and I kep feeling like everywhere I go, satan is watching me and using people as instruments to keep me down. I don’t even feel like ‘myself’ most times. I get aggresive and vent but not for any reason when really I am battling a spirit inside and I just get angry externally.
“It is the work of the Holy Spirit to lead us into truth and I believe those who come out of these false teachings have done so because of Him only. So, knowing what we do about the Lord would it be his way to lead us and and then abandon us? No. And tho what we have been involved in sounds very much like blaspheme of the Holy Spirit, I don’t think it is. I don’t believe those who blaspheme will be found among the children of God – the redeemed. This too is something I struggled with. Its a biggie, but in context of the truth of the word I don’t believe it lines up. I don’t believe God would lead out blasphemers just to turn His back on them. Christ died for all our sins and we, having been saved because of our faith and belief in Jesus Christ as the Messiah, as the Son of God proves that we are under the blood of Christ. He will never leave or forsake His own. We may leave and forsake Him but this side of eternity I do not believe that he gives up on us.”
-your right! But I felt God is angry with me. he won’t accept me. its like, not just my feelings, emotions but just something tells me He ain’t gonna forgive me. And I can just imagine being in front of Jesus and Him telling me to “depart” its like my heart being exposed with all the hidden darkness there that He could see. I’m beginning to think I must not call myself a Christian, that everyone I told that to, I must tell them that I lied and that I wasn’t really born again!
Lee, the fear/panic feelings that you describe sound like panic or anxiety attacks. They are very scary and feel like heart attacks or like being strangled. Medication can help with this and so can getting to the bottom of its cause.
All things aside, your past, the voices, trying to figure it all out, etc. you will need to decide if you want a relationship with Christ. And if so, repent. Feelings – like what you describe you feel that God is angry, aren’t to be trusted. The truth is in the word and Jesus is able to set you free regardless of your past. I believe you would benefit greatly from someone who is qualified to counsel you in these matters.
“I believe you would benefit greatly from someone who is qualified to counsel you in these matters.”
nope! theres too many false, deceived people out there and where I’m from (in the UK, London) I know of no genuine place/person whom I can trust. I can’t trust anybody. It’s like coming out of the false stuff, you feel all alone, well in this case, for counseling, so do I.
Mkayla, thanks very much 🙂
its good to know someone who has experienced the affects.
I do want a relationship with Christ, its just I end up falling back into sin or resisting with little effort.
Yes, and we all sin and we all struggle with the sin nature. This is why the bible will help you. God chose to use people who sinned;all throughout the bible there are such stories. And the one man responsible for most of the New Testament, Paul, used to chase down Christians for imprisonment and death. The life of a Christian is one of a disciple, meaning it takes discipline. Repentance is an act of the will to turn from the sinful ways to the righteous ways of God. None of us ever arrive at that destination. It is a daily and sometimes moment by moment process.
your right! thanks for the advice. will get on to reading the articles!
Hey Mkayla I couldn’t find this link on the links above. Have you removed it? I had to google it in! Anyway I had my dad’s funeral service two days ago and I felt so fake. I had to read a eulogy and people applauded but I thought if they only knew my heart and my condition – I put myself across as someone I’m not. on top of that I couldn’t cry and didnt at the funeral service even though im in huge shock. I think as I try to think on Jesus I can’t contemplate His Death on the cross for me. I can’t even begin to think how real it is. I know it is a shame I’m saying this now after all those times in charismania but when you come out your mind begins to clear. But my mind is closed to realising the truth even though I have head knowledge of it. You know when you have a urgent realisation of something? well I don’t. I just pray God will work to regenerate my heart cos Im dead and wicked in there, it is calloused. I know Christ is the truh and the way but when I repent, its like I just go straight back to my sins, like I haven’t chnaged. also, I don’t feel like Im saved or can be. I can imagine myself standing in front of God and Him saying Depart from me’ e.t.c!
The link will take you to the article that I copied here on the blog. It worked when I tried it a moment ago. The link to the author and original article I listed in the article IS broken. It happens. I’ll have to look for a new one.
The reason I referred you to that article is to help you overcome what you are experiencing. I don’t believe it is possible to state the truth of the gospel of Jesus Christ and then claim it has not changed the heart. The very fact that a person knows that – whether it be called head knowledge or spirit knowledge – shows he has been given the truth. It can only come supernaturally through the power of the Holy Spirit. He is the one who reveals our sin and who leads us into truth.
Call upon the Lord and He will save you. It is His will that all come to repentance and He will forgive those who repent. How many promises and assurances do we have that our faith is the reflection of the saving grace of God through Christ? To say otherwise is to argue with God and to call Him a liar. The precious benefit of the bible is to know the truth from what is written inside of it. God’s word always trumps feelings and emotions – always. You must make a deliberate choice in not sinning. Whatever it is that compels you to do so, you must turn from it. This is the act of discipline in a disciple. Making the choice to turn the other way is hard, grueling. But we do it because of the love of Christ calls us to it. The calling is not an easy one to live out. It is one of self-denial, of tribulation and sorrow, but at the same time and even strangely so, it is one of joy and peace as we find comfort in knowing we are walking out our faith. Like Paul stated, to live is Christ.
Charismania and wof boasts of the miraculous, of power – blah, blah! These teachers do nothing to equip their followers with what it really takes to live a Christian life. It is all about getting the best life now and blessing and prosperity and experiences. Much of it is based on feeling and emotion which are not of the spirit but are of the flesh, evidence by a lack of a renewed mind. I think too often we expect salvation will come with an experience or that our sinful ways will suddenly stop. Not so. These false teachers follow a different “jesus” because the one who died for our sins did not have a life that way, nor did His followers! If we consider the horror of their lives it only stands to reason that there were many times they did not “feel” saved or forgiven or loved. But because they heard the word and believed they were strengthened to walk in their calling and in so doing finished well. Jesus said blessed are those who have seen and believe, but even more those who believe and have not seen. We have not seen Him and yet we believe. How blessed are you in that? There is truth there.
You have experienced trauma and you should be patient toward yourself and let the Lord change you. When I came out of charismania, it did not happen overnight. It took time, it took me being focused on the truths of the word of God and not my own feelings and it took some deliberate choices that were very hard. If it were true that you have fallen too far you would no longer have the desire for forgiveness. If you truly had a calloused heart you would not be pursuing this conversation and you certainly wouldn’t be praying for God to change you.
Read John 14, 15, 16 and 17, slowly, deliberately taking in each word then read them again, then read them again. 🙂
hmmm I understand. Thank you Mkayla. I’m sorry if you find me annoying and I go on and on and on…its just your more mature and have been through it full force. I have experienced only one part of it but still hat was enough to damage me. Yes, often time the WoF charismania lives in fairyland believing that they can do all. I used to command God you know, when I was in there!! it was that bad lool
anyway sorry to be irritating, it is nice to talk to someone likewise. tell me if I am being silly and I’ll tone it down!
Lee, I’m not irritated or annoyed. I am speaking some truth to you the best I know how. 🙂
thank you! I know sometimes I can be irritate people thats why i was hoping I’m not irritating you. and you speak absolute truth, i don’t know how you managed to survive the charismatic circus mess to be honest, it really is that bad. One time, our church in London had Tommy Tenney and Jerry Savelle there. at the time, I had just left the church and good thing no one laid hands on me! that would have been grief lool!
Lee, yes it is getting worse and even more reason (if we needed one) to read the bible and stay focused on the truth there. I survived the circus because God is faithful. He used an area that I needed help in to train others to begin to show me the truth. Who would have guessed.
I read this and thought of you and your continued struggles- and to encourage you again that we all share them.
2 Corinthians 10:3-7
3 For though we walk in the flesh, we do not war according to the flesh. 4 For the weapons of our warfare are not carnal but mighty in God for pulling down strongholds, 5 casting down arguments and every high thing that exalts itself against the knowledge of God, bringing every thought into captivity to the obedience of Christ, 6 and being ready to punish all disobedience when your obedience is fulfilled.
Galatians 5:16-17 I say then: Walk in the Spirit and you shall not fulfill the lust of the flesh. 17 For the flesh lusts against the Spirit, and the Spirit against the flesh; and these are contrary to one another, so that you do not do the things that you wish.
Romans 12:1-2 I beseech you therefore, brethren, by the mercies of God, that you present your bodies a living sacrifice, holy, acceptable to God, which is your reasonable service. 2 And do not be conformed to this world but be transformed by the renewing of your mind, that you may prove what is that good and acceptable and perfect will of God.
oh also Mkayla, I assume you got the message from Deborah from Discerning the world ehh?
No, I don’t remember getting a message from her. Was it sent to the blog?
yeah, she said she wrote a message that basically thanked you for helping me and just said that i am in a dark place now…I will ask her to send it again.
🙂 thank you! I always think of that verse…be renewed in my mind
Hi Lee, my name is damon, would you mind if I jumped in and offered my studied opinion?
I run a groupblog and support group for ex-Wofers and have studied it for 2 1/2 years. I think I can help you tremendously. And I like to talk. In fact we could respond via audio messages and really do some great talking and fellow-shipping. And I’m not being boastful, but I can teach you all you need to know about the WoF and how to recover.
Sister M’K, can you make sure lee gets this?, you should have his email available to you on your comments page on the dashboard, can you send him an alert e-mail asking him to respond to me here. TY!!!
Hi Damon, thanks alot for your help! I will get round to looking at your blog and contacting you. I’m just sooo busy right now loool but I will get round to you.
I just moved unexpectedly and am two weeks past a deadline on my biggest apologetics project yet. So I am real bussy too. Seen your comments here awhile back but did not have internet to respond. Just wanted to touch base with you and let you know I am here to help. That is kinda my full time job,,, to serve the Lord and help His people. It would be an honor to help you also.
Things seem real complicated for you and I got a good ear and a little bit of wisdom to share. You can ask sister M’K to oversee our interaction if you would like. She can vouch that I have a heart for helping Gods people.
here are the links you’ll need.
be blessed brother
Thanks Damon. Link corrected. 🙂
lovely :)! thank you indeed. I will get round to you ;).
Mkayla, thanks for going to all the trouble!
It’s no trouble. 🙂
Thanks Mkayla for forwarding this to me 🙂 somehow I couldn’t respond to the email cos it bounced back but I just to say thanks.
Sister M’K, can you make sure lee gets this video,please. I will have to make three post to get all the videos to embed.
LEE,, please watch these videos and get back with me ASAP. In the video I promised to post something after you watch the videos, let me know when you have watched them so I can post that for you.
God Bless us all
Damon, I am so thankful for your work in this area. I am going to post these videos as articles because I believe others could use the information and encouragement. By the way, I don’t need to “monitor” conversation between you and Lee, and appreciate the help you are offering him.
Had no idea of the trauma you have endured over the years. It is amazing what it can do to our minds and I don’t think we put enough emphasis on that. Once again, we see the false teaching of the healing movement, word faith teachings that do not deliver what they promise. I caught that comment about Joel Osteen and your lack of faith – revealing!
God allows us to go through all kinds of things and if we are willing we can be a testament and help others through similar circumstances. I am reminded of this verse:
2 Corinthians 1:3-4
3 Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, the Father of mercies and God of all comfort,
4 who comforts us in all our tribulation, that we may be able to comfort those who are in any trouble with the comfort with which we ourselves are comforted by God.
You are a great help to many! I continue to pray for you. Thank you for your willingness to help in this situation.
Blessings to you.
Hi Mk,, if it is OK with lee, you can use my videos any way you want too. And thank you for all you do too. I love pople who pay it forward and I know for sure your a great help to people. So may the Lord Jesus bless you tremendously.
AND THANKS FOR THE PRAYERS TOO. I’m kinda a big target and can use the prayers,,for sure.
I think all who speak the truth are too. We have entered into a time that people no longer want the truth and those who adhere to the scriptures – Christ alone, etc. are quickly becoming the bad guys.
Lee gave me permission (because I asked first) to publish his story that you ended up responding to. If I put up the dilemma, then I should put up the answer. 🙂 I look at the blog as a resource to all who visit.
Sounds good to me. Lets do all things before men for the glory of the Lord.