This is a clip sent to me by Heralding Truth who asked that I share it with as many possible. The best way for me to do that is to take it from the comment section where he posted it and put it as its own article. It’s pretty easy to catch the false teaching here! I wonder about those who claim we are healed, esp those who wear eyeglasses and undergo medical treatment.
Jesus healed all to prove that He was indeed sent by God. Jesus was not borne again; He was raised from the dead to prove again that He is God and that He has power over life and death! Context and understanding come from the teaching of scripture in its entirety, not from something that sounds good at the moment!
m'kayla's korner 
Thanks for getting info out. Good ‘exposing’ video. Guess there are all kinds of ‘goings on’ at Johnson’s Bethel Church. I hear there is a cancer free zone around his church..now THAT’S something.
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Yes, cancer free zone! He came up with that some time ago. Do any of his followers pay attention to the fact that his claims never manifest? Never?
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I have dealt with chronic illness for years and, by the grace of my Father, have endured knowing that I have a Heavenly home that is waiting for me & I will be there someday. I do not believe that He put this on me, but for some reason has allowed it…I do not question this, for we now see through a glass darkly & know that the rain falls on the just and the unjust. If I would take heed to Mr. Johnson’s teaching I would feel frustrated & think that God really does not love me or He would heal me. (I have been prayed over many times for healing) Also, I do not understand how he believes that Paul’s thorn in the flesh was not physical…just read it!
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Katie I agree with you 100% – God allows good and bad in our lives. Sorry to hear you are sick and I am sure you could have much to say about who your Lord is, having learned of Him first hand. 🙂
The healing rooms under Cal Pierce out of Spokane Washington which I “ministered” in for a time, have exactly the same teaching as does Bill Johnson’s. If we are sick there is a reason because there is no sickness in heaven or the “kingdom”. It is a false teaching, a very dangerous one that I have so often warned about here on my blog. And again you are correct. If you took heed to these man made teachings or doctrines of demons you would indeed become frustrated. You would be sent on a quest to find out why exactly you are sick. It is a very ugly process of rebuking people, teachings, curses, a near endless list of “could be’s” – real or imagined – proclaiming scriptures and an endless repeat of “I am healed in Jesus’ name”. After the game is done still healing does not come. It is wicked. I am glad you know the difference. Thank you for your encouragement.
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Please pray for me and my family. One of my leadership preach on him and i wanted to know something about him and found this clip. I Was caught in the shapermovement in the 1980 and now our church is teaching the 7 mountain I really need help Pray for me
Thanks Did any one study the 7 mountain need a scriptures?
Thank Dan
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My heart goes out to you. Many are caught up in the NAR teachings. There’s more info on the seven mountains (NAR) here on my blog and tons out there on the internet. There is no scriptural foundation for this teaching or the so called prophetic word that brought it the church. Basically it is the kingdom now – dominionists who believe Christ CANNOT return until the church finally recognizes its true calling and takes the world for the kingdom thru the 7 mountains of influence. All those who support or teach this are proven false prophets, teachers or apostles.
The truth is bibically, that Christ will return when the Father sends Him to do so. Mankind has no say or power or influence in that decision and those who believe otherwise have parted from the truth.
I will pray for you! 🙂
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Here are some really awesome scriptures I found while studying I Corinthians. Paul had been discussing the resurrection for those who are in Christ at His coming, and follows with I Cor 15:24,25 “After that comes the end (the completion), when He (Christ) delivers over the kingdom to God the Father after rendering inoperative and abolishing every other rule and every authority and power. For Christ must be King and reign until HE has put all His enemies under His feet.” Don’t these dominionists read their bibles? How blinding this false, counterfeit spirit is!
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HI! Thanks!!!! 🙂
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Hi Mkayla. I believe I have read where you have spoken with others through email etc. Is it possible for you to contact me through my email? I believe you may be able to answer some questions about the situation I am living with concerning my daughter. Thank you
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Yes, here’s my e-mail
mkayla@comcast.net
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Oh, I see now you were asking me to contact you! ha. Sometimes I read too quickly!
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Don’t these dominionists read their bibles?
Actually, they DO read the Bible; but, they adapt it to fit their own theology. Al Dager did a great job of defining Dominionism, Kingdom Now, Manifest Sons of God, Latter Rain (much of this overlaps; but, there are many variations within the Dominionism camp) and many other associated false teachings/practices:
http://www.erwm.com/KingdomTheology1.htm
According to Kingdom Now theology, The “many-membered man-child” will be the “overcomers” (manifested sons of God) who will make up “Christ” as the body of Christ which will fulfill I Corinthians 15:24-25. Further, they believe this will be the fulfillment of Rev 12:5:
“Those who hold to Kingdom Theology assume that the Church (some believe only a small group within the Church, called “overcomers”) [manifested sons of God], under submission to the latter day apostles and prophets [NAR], is that man child [of Rev 12:5], and that it has the responsibility to put down all rebellion and establish righteousness. This necessitates the utilization of supernatural power and the full implementation of the gifts of the Holy Spirit. This theory is based upon the idea that all authority in heaven and on the earth has been given to Jesus. Since believers are indwelt by the same Holy Spirit that indwelt Jesus, we have all authority in heaven and on the earth; we have the power to believe for and speak into existence things that are not [Word of Faith], and thus we can bring about the Kingdom Age. The many-membered man child must take control of the earth before Jesus can return.” [bracketed notes are mine]
Dager continues:
…Notice that this idea, similar to that of mind science and other false religions, separates the anointing of “Christ” from Jesus and bestows it upon all who come into a place of certain knowledge and spiritual attainment. This is a heresy that is as old as the Church. It is rooted in the Greek school of philosophy known as Gnosticism.
Theosophy/New Age teaching is that “Christ” is an office and not a person; and, that once enough individuals have attained this “Christ consciousness,” a ‘critical mass’ is reached in which the human race will evolve from homo sapiens to the next leap of mankind known as homo noeticus or homo universalis.
See the connection?
From the esoteric/occult Alice A. Bailey book From Bethlehem to Calvary which lays out Theosophic/New Age theology:
Christianity will not be superseded. It will be transcended, its work of preparation being triumphantly accomplished, and Christ [antichrist] will again give us the next revelation of divinity [within ourselves].
…Can there not be revelations of God utterly unprecedented, and for which we have no words or adequate means of expression? The ancient mysteries [occult/gnostic teachings], so shortly to be restored, must be re-interpreted in the light of Christianity, and readapted to meet modern need… [bracketed notes and emphasis mine]
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Craig, that comment of yours in bold is the same teaching or thoughts coming from the emergents – Brian McLaren, Rob Bell and so many others as they believe Christianity must change to fit the needs of post modern society.
What I witnessed and was able to see, even more clearly now – Christ is an “office” or as I saw a “power” evidenced by charismaniacs in thier “transferrable anointing” through the laying on of hands. There is indeed a power or a presence going from person to person, but it is not the Holy Spirit or His anointing as they claim it to be.
If you have ever listened to the prophet (false) Bob Jones you would have heard him declare that many of our “children” will not see death. Yes, this is the manifested sons teaching – Rick Joyner, Cal Pierce, etc. The connection between these false teachers – WOF – Kingdom Now and the New Age is alarming and so true.
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Here’s a video/audio I put together of Todd Friel explains how God is in control of EVERYTHING, including our sickness and death.
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My goodness! Thanks for this video! These scriptures are well worth the listen!
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So we can see what happens when Mr. Johnson creates a theology!?! But why must he teach these things? Because if he didn’t, he couldn’t (in good conscience 😉 follow after his idols.
Satan is working overtime to insure that he’ll have a great congregation to follow after his anti-christ.
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Satan is working overtime to insure that he’ll have a great congregation to follow after his anti-christ
enough to create a shutter, huh?
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Interestingly enough, apparently BJ had some serious health issues last year. I recall reading about this on his personal blog but Iam having trouble relocating it again. If I manage to find it , I’ll post a link.
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Found it !!
http://endtimespropheticwords.wordpress.com/2009/04/14/bill-johnson-of-bethel-ministries-health-update/
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Thanks Ray. I remember reading about this on her blog too and it was what I was referring to when I mentioned health problems. Most all people in healing ministries have them, some more severe than others, even chronic. They are blind guides.
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One of the many things Word of Faith adn NAR “teachers”…love to talk about is “The Anointing.” But what is transparent listening to them, is they manifest..like that word?!…is an utter lack of unction by the Spirit. Johnson attempting to expalin that Jesus was born again was beyond pathetic. He did become sin..but yet no sin was found IN HIM…only those who have sin IN them need to be made right by being Born Again. This is a man, who claims all these anointings, alleges he has prophetic and apostolic calling, and yet could neither discern or had the courage to “out” Todd bentley’s for his enumerated heresies, falsehoods, serial sexual sin, stealing. And make now doubt, I believe once the “coast is clear”, Bethel’s leadership will invite Bentley to entertain and defile those that quite honestly are choosing to be biblically illiterate and will find anyone who will tickle their ears.
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HI Ron. I had that very thought about Jesus becoming sin, yet remaining sinless –after I put up the video. In the o.t. animals were sacrificed for the sins of the people, but the animals were never guilty of their sin either. Jesus became the ultimate and final sacrifice for us all! Praise God for this much better way!!!
This claim of Johnson’s appears to be another example of putting Jesus at the same level as mankind in that Jesus was a sinner like us. Heresy!!! On the other side is mankind becoming like God who has the power to heal all with just the word. It’s twisted theology, exaulting man far above what God ever intended. If Jesus needed to be borne again, who would be his savior?
I have found those who flock to hear Johnson also flock to hear Bentely. So, if there ever is a public union like you say it would be a very welcomed one for them all.
Nice to hear from you!
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Someone on a thread on “slaughteringthesheep” made a very astute observation: That the false prophets claim to have so much supernatural revelation and visions, yet they never seem to get any “revelation” about their own sin, or of the corruption taking place in their movement.
This is typically the work of the demonic (some call a “religious spirit”) where people get so caught up in “the heavenlies” AT THE EXPENSE OF FACING REALITY : avoiding the very things the Holy Spirit is convicting of.
The true Holy Spirit ALWAYS deals with OUR character and integrity FIRST.
http://ianvincent.wordpress.com/
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Mkayla, with your past involvement with the “healing rooms” in Spokane, could you tell me if there is something such as Sozo or inner healing sessions..etc that take place and what they lead to? I know this thread is about Bill Johnson, but I have reason to believe that my daughter is involved with both of these -“ministries”-. Are these groups affiliated with each other, similar, birds of a feather? As you know my daughter has had no contact with family or friends for years now. I am constantly researching along with prayer looking for answers. Thank you
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Yes, Tez. Sozo is a method of inner healing used at Bethel and throughout the healing rooms. Johnson was on the board of directors for IAHR International Assn of Healing Rooms and was often the speaker at their confs. I heard him and Randy Clark there a few years ago. They are indeed tied together.
The room I was involved with had their own method, was very lengthy and involved. I trained with the team for 6 weeks, went through sessions myself and took others through them. They are very dangerous and involve nothing more that what is known as guided imagery, something you will find in secular therapy. I had loads of visions using sozo and some pretty strange happenings. I don’t recommend anyone become involved with these practices no matter what is involved in their past or how ugly it was. We are not taught to go into our past in the word, but to look forward, look to Jesus. He is the author and finisher of our faith and our healer. I am convinced these sessions are demonic – beyond a doubt.
I’m sorry I don’t have much info on it here on the blog. I haven’t gotten around to exposing much on it. You can ask me about it more if you would like at the link I posted to the article.
Hope my info helps you.
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Tez here is the link to the IAHR healing rooms headed by Cal Pierce and based corporately iin Spokane.
http://healingrooms.com/
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This is for heraldingTruth:
As someone pointed out to me, there may be two different sermons in this particular video with perhaps separate dates. Are there? There’s a definite break between the first part about the “different gospel” and Jesus being “born again.”
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Someone else took the time to transcribe this (we’ll call this individual “WB”). Here’s the first part:
Hebrews 1 says that in times past God spoke to us through the prophets. But now he speaks to us through Jesus. What’s the point? That message was for then. Jesus is for now. Without that shift there is a constant reproducing of an anointing and a ministry that is not for today. Yesterday’s anointing is like yesterday’s manna.
As so this ministry of Jesus that dealt with every single person that came to him with affliction or torment–he ministered to them. That’s the only standard to follow. I refuse to create a theology that allows for sickness. Now here we’ve got a problem. Only one. It’s a small one. The apostle Paul gives a warning in Galatians. And he says this. He says, “If I. . . ” He’s the one who brought the Gospel to them. He says, “If I or even an angel comes to you and preaches to you a different Gospel you are to reject it.” That’s amazing. An angel shows up and he brings you a different standard, a different Gospel, reject it. He says, “Even if I come back to you and I change my mind don’t pay any attention to me.” Alright, what Gospel is it? It’s the Gospel of Jesus. It’s the Gospel of the Kingdom.
[Sighs] Okay. Let me illustrate. Paul refers to his thorn in the flesh, which has been interpreted by many as disease allowed or brought on by God. That’s a different Gospel. Jesus didn’t model it and He didn’t teach it. And Paul said, “You can’t change the standard.”
That felt good. You guys alright?
Felt good?! No; and, I’m not alright!
I’ll skip the first paragraph – even though I’m very troubled by Johnson’s “yesterday’s anointing” phrase – since there’s much bigger fish to fry. It’s the rest which is seriously troubling.
First, as in all Scripture, it’s important to establish context. Taking the entire Galatian epistle as a whole, Paul’s main point was to combat the teaching of the Judaizers who were trying to make the Gentiles observe Jewish ceremonial practices, especially circumcision. So, in laying out the letter, Paul denounces the “other gospel” of the Judaizers [vv 1:6-9]; establishes his credentials [1:10 – 2:10]; tells of his rebuke to Peter for his hypocrisy in separating from non-circumcised Gentiles to be with the Jews [2:11-21]; promotes faith over observance of the Law [3:1 – 4:11] ; appeals to live in freedom from the Law [4:12-31]; proclaims freedom to live life by the Spirit [5:1-6:10]; then, wraps it up. In short, Paul proclaims the true Gospel while correcting error.
If we take Johnson’s words above to there ultimate conclusion – i.e. a) Paul was sick; b) this evidences a ‘different gospel’; c) therefore, Paul was preaching a ‘different gospel’; d) we are to reject it – then we should reject Paul’s other writings as they all preach the same Gospel as the Book of Galatians! So, forget Romans, the Corinthian letters, Galatians, Ephesians, and the other Pauline epistles and letters! The implications of Johnson’s words above are enormous!
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On top of all the lies, I am convinced that sigh, that pause of implied momentary frustration – why can’t you people GET this – is a form of manipulation. He does this quite often.
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Yes, you are right. And, his smirking, tongue-in-cheek, hipper-than-you phrases are his way of manipulating people as well. An example from above:
Now here we’ve got a problem. Only one. It’s a small one.
He’s being a smart-aleck. He did a similar thing when people questioned Todd Bentley with his “Have you _________________ [fill in the blank] with Todd?” after Bentley’s “commissioning” at Lakeland.
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I remember his “teaching” on – grace??? was it —after Todd and how he supported and defended him AND I remember his near teary performance. Gag then, gag now.
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Comparatively, Johnson is more intelligent, more charismatic (in the snake oil salesman type of way) and more polished than Bentley which makes him more dangerous in my book.
Tomorrow, when I’m more awake (been a LONG day), I intend on posting my thoughts on the “Born again Jesus” portion of this video.
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OH MY! Clearly they are in different classes. I’ve noticed Johnson to have a way that no one else seems to have. There’s just something there – some appealing quality that makes him far more convincing than many who have gone before him. Yes, he is very dangerous, superseding Hagin, Copeland, etc. Bentley is just an idiot.
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Craig, much appreciated WB’s transcription and your posting it. Very helpful. Thank you for pointing out the “different gospel” implications in the clip.
I had received an audio clip of this a week ago and immediately spotted the “refuse to tolerate sickness” gospel and the “born again” Jesus errors. I also spotted – or thought I spotted – his implication that Paul preached a different gospel.
The no sickness gospel and born again Jesus stuff, while error/heresy were old news to anyone who’s followed Johnson and his blend of Word of Faith and Signs & Wonders apostolic/prophetic theology. But the undermining of Paul, his credibility and the credibility of his letters was new territory, and the implications so great that I didn’t trust my ears. All week I’ve watched the posts here and hadn’t seen anyone comment about the Paul statements so I began to doubt what I had heard and the conclusions I had drawn. I knew my schedule wouldn’t allow me to post before the weekend, so just yesterday – after telling them about this clip all week – I asked my wife and son to listen with me to confirm my conclusions about the Paul comments before posting them. So, again, thank you very much!
You’re absolutely right, the implications of this are enormous!
Reminded me that Rick Joyner used the same tactic in The Final Quest, I believe, when he claimed to have talked with Paul in heaven. Joyner claimed that Paul felt that he hadn’t accomplished all that he could have, and that Joyner and the other apostles would do “greater works”. Essentially, Joyner’s writings – which he claims are often inspired or spoken to him by Jesus – tend to denigrate and minimize Paul while inmplying that Joyner’s writings have been sanctioned by Jesus, and the implication is that they carry the same weight of inspiration as Scripture.
I’m also reminded that Paul and his letters have come under attack in more mainstream evangelical circles lately, most notably in N.T. Wright’s writings.
I wonder if this (attach/undermine Paul and his letters) is the direction that apostolic/prophetic error will go next in a big way? With evangelical and emergent error going that way too?
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I have heard the emergents making derogatory comments about Paul at other sites and here on my blog. I have also read comments in e-mails from those caught up in this craziness, not necessarily emergents but charsimaniacs who point out so and so in the bible did something wrong—had they done______ instead, they would have been more effective! It is appalling.
And yes, I am aware of Joyner’s statement and his so called meeting with Paul. So, like another “Jesus” he has a different “Paul” as well. Either that or he is just a liar about these supernatural experiences.
When Jesus told his disciples “greater things will you do” I am convinced He was speaking of the enormous growth of the church told about in the book of Acts – SALVATION! What could possibly be more important that a person’s salvation? Healing of the physical body pales in comparison – gained the world but lost the soul!
But these false prophets and apostles believe the greater things mean greater than Jesus himself. It is about their supernatural power, false signs and wonders, the things of man, the flesh! It is a huge error. But these blind guides have become so puffed up in their own doctrine they can’t recognize their own heresy. Where are these great things? Where are the claims for healings and resurrection of the dead, etc? They do not exist because those who brag in such ways are liars and have parted from the truth.
A person cannot follow Christ and yet ignore the bible. And so these men and women are not a part of the true church. They are the end result of their own vain imaginations, considering themselves higher than Christ.
I am glad for the communication here and thankful for your wisdom and comments – each of you.
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One of the reasons for the attack on Paul’s writings is because he’s the only one who wrote specifically on homosexuality. The (True) Gospel accounts speak nothing of this subject. Consequently, if the Pauline writings can be demeaned then homosexuality has a better chance of being promoted.
I’ve known of the homosexual agenda’s attacks on Paul’s writings for a while now. Someone I know has a daughter who has professed faith in Christ in the recent past, yet is now living a lesbian lifestyle. In speaking with her about her faith, she responded that she wanted nothing to do with Christianity. Then she said she still loved Jesus, though. When he pointed out the hypocrisy in that statement she said she rejects parts of the Bible, yet she loves the Words of Jesus and Jesus Himself never denounced homosexuality.
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Norcal:
I had to think about this for a while as well. What WAS Johnson trying to say exactly? In the final analysis, what I wrote above is the only conclusion I could reach.
You’re right about Joyner promoting his own words as being equal to if not greater than Scripture for his words are ‘now’ words for the ‘now’ endtimes generation.
Mkayla:
Some of these folks are tools of Satan doing Satan’s work while others are acting in the flesh. Some are doing this knowing quite well what they’re doing while the rest are doing it unwittingly. We just don’t know which is which. Certainly, some of the players at the top know what they are doing. The Alice Bailey books on Theosophy state that there would be those who would work from within Christendom while there will be others from without.
Thank you for your comment and your blog.
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Only God knows the heart of a person and in saying that I am not excusing anyone’s false teaching or their being a follower of one. But this is why we pray for them as it is only the Lord who can reach them and bring them out of such deception.
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Good hermeneutics Craig! Thanks for having a brain and using it! It’s so important that we let the Bible translate itself!
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Honestly, what IS he saying here in this first paragraph? It is annoying to no end – as though everything spoken before Jesus is null and void. But these are things he HAS to believe, because otherwise the new Prophets and apostles (ala NAR) cannot be considered authoritative.
I wonder if the comment he made about Paul’s “thorn” affliction was to imply that it couldn’t have been a physical ailment but that it must have been spiritual in some way? Because according to BJ, that would have been accepting a different gospel allowing for physical sickness?
BJ is a cool snake, for sure. He is often called humble, but true humility demands that we SUBMIT TO GOD’s WORD; in his very low-key, ear tickling mannor, he demands that scripture bow to his own gods.
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Sandy,
I wonder if the comment he made about Paul’s “thorn” affliction was to imply that it couldn’t have been a physical ailment but that it must have been spiritual in some way? Because according to BJ, that would have been accepting a different gospel allowing for physical sickness?
I wondered about this at first; but, right there in the book of Galatians of which Johnson quotes the REAL Apostle Paul on ‘no other gospel’ are verses speaking of Paul’s physical ailment:
13As you know, it was because of an illness that I first preached the gospel to you. 14Even though my illness was a trial to you, you did not treat me with contempt or scorn. Instead, you welcomed me as if I were an angel of God, as if I were Christ Jesus himself. 15What has happened to all your joy? I can testify that, if you could have done so, you would have torn out your eyes and given them to me. 16Have I now become your enemy by telling you the truth? [Galatians 4:13-16 NIV]
So, then, according to Bill Johnson, Paul here was preaching another gospel since he, in effect, “created a gospel which allowed for sickness” — His own. In Johnson’s eyes that would be a poor example given the first part of this clip, wouldn’t it?
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I in no way defend BJ, but I don’t think that he was saying Paul preached a different gospel. He is saying anyone who interprets Paul’s thorn in the flesh as a sickness is preaching a different gospel.
But I also want to say, thank you for the point by point scriptural rebuttal. It is helpful as I climb out of the non critical charismatic mindset.
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ruthsongs,
Your quite welcome regarding the Scriptural rebuttal.
As for the point about Paul preaching a different gospel, please see my comment to Sandy above @ Aug 30 12:52pm
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[Sighs] Okay. Let me illustrate. Paul refers to his thorn in the flesh, which has been interpreted by many as disease allowed or brought on by God. That’s a different Gospel. Jesus didn’t model it and He didn’t teach it. And Paul said, “You can’t change the standard.”
This “thorn in the flesh” is bugging me and so I took a closer look – – –
Of course it was given to Paul – It is not a matter of “some believe”, but written in the word of God – and why? Paul stated it was so to keep him from BOASTING BECAUSE OF MANY VISIONS AND REVELATIONS (2 Corinthians 12:1-4)!!!! And he boasted only in the fact that the power of Christ would rest upon him because of that infirmity. (big difference here – HUGE)
2 Corinthians 12:7 And lest I should be exalted above measure by the abundance of the revelations, a thorn in the flesh was given to me, a messenger of Satan to buffet me, lest I be exalted above measure.
8 Concerning this thing I pleaded with the Lord three times that it might depart from me.
9 And He said to me, “My grace is sufficient for you, for My strength is made perfect in weakness.” Therefore most gladly I will rather boast in my infirmities, that the power of Christ may rest upon me.
10 Therefore I take pleasure in infirmities, in reproaches, in needs, in persecutions, in distresses, for Christ’s sake. For when I am weak, then I am strong.
This scripture is far different from those who claim blessing upon blessing for themselves; those who cry out for prosperity and healing and greatness and believe it is their due, their right to receive great things from God as they are part of a “kingdom” or who possess a “kingdom mindset”. We find none of this from the writings in the New Testament, not even from those who walked side by side with the Lord Jesus Himself. Not even of Paul who gave us so much of the NT and so much to learn from.
I’ve said this before, having come from a “healing ministry”. There are scriptures that prove believers did get sick and suffered because of it. The very teaching that “healing is in the atonement” is a lie, an idol that many chase after and never grasp. Jesus died for our salvation, not so we can live lives of health, wealth and prosperity. This is why Bill Johnson is a false teacher and why I am not afraid to say so.
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Quote
As so this ministry of Jesus that dealt with every single person that came to him with affliction or torment–he ministered to them. That’s the only standard to follow. I refuse to create a theology that allows for sickness.
…………..
This statement from BJ typifies the the arrogance and ignorance that we have come to expect from this man.
” I refuse to create a theology that allows for sickness”
Really ??
Is BJ now assuming to be God, is he standing in the holy place that is reserved for the Most High God.
What BJ is prolifergating amounts to little more than an abomination, one that causes desolation of the Spirit.
Bill Johnson is a liar, the illness that he has experienced in his own life is testament to the fact that he really has very little understanding of how the kingdom of God operates.
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Here’s the transcription followed by my views on the 2nd part. Sorry it’s so long; but, I felt it was necessary to get the point across:
”…Did you know that Jesus was born again? I asked… the first service and they said, “no.” But I will show it. It’s in the Bible. He had to be. He became sin.
“In Hebrews 1 it says this, “For to which of the angels did he ever say, ‘You are my son. Today I have begotten you’?” And Acts 13 explains that: “God has fulfilled this for us their children in that he has raised up Jesus. As it is also written in the second Psalm: ‘You are My Son, Today I have begotten You.’ And that He raised Him from the dead, no more to return to corruption. He was born through Mary the first time and through the resurrection the second time. He was born again.”
Did Jesus become sin? As we examine Scripture we find that Jesus was without sin:
For we do not have a high priest who is unable to sympathize with our weaknesses, but we have one who has been tempted in every way, just as we are—yet was without sin. [Hebrews 4:15 NIV]
And, here we have Peter quoting from Isaiah 53:9:
22″He committed no sin, and no deceit was found in his mouth.” [1 Peter 2:22 NIV]
The following passage explains that Jesus Christ came the first time to ‘bear sin’ as a vicarious substitute (propitiation) for our sins with His sacrifice of Himself; and, His Second Coming will be to bring the ultimate fulfillment of salvation to the collective body of Christ:
26…But now he has appeared once for all at the end of the ages to do away with sin by the sacrifice of himself. 27Just as man is destined to die once, and after that to face judgment, 28so Christ was sacrificed once to take away the sins of many people; and he will appear a second time, not to bear sin, but to bring salvation to those who are waiting for him. [Hebrews 9:26b-28 NIV]
The word ‘corruption’ as used in Acts 13 in the Greek is Diaphthora which means:
1. corruption, destruction
2. in the NT that destruction which is effected by the decay of the body after death
http://www.studylight.org/lex/grk/view.cgi?number=1312
By the context of Acts 13:33-37 – the passage Johnson is referring to — it is clear that definition number 2 above is the one that fits:
33 God has fulfilled this for us their children, in that He has raised up Jesus. As it is also written in the second Psalm:
‘ You are My Son,
Today I have begotten You.’
34 And that He raised Him from the dead, no more to return to corruption [bodily decay following death], He has spoken thus:
‘ I will give you the sure mercies of David.’
35 Therefore He also says in another Psalm:
‘ You will not allow Your Holy One to see corruption.’
36 “For David, after he had served his own generation by the will of God, fell asleep, was buried with his fathers, and saw corruption [bodily decay following death]; 37 but He whom God raised up saw no corruption [bodily decay following death]. [NKJV; – as this is apparently the one to which Johnson is referring; explanation mine]
The ‘corruption’ of verse 34 above is defined in verses 35 and 37. So, this context has nothing to do with sin. Hence, Jesus did not “become sin” in that He did not become a sinful being. This, of course, would have negated Jesus’ purpose in the first place. From this false premise Johnson creates the theology that Jesus needed to be born again.
Does Johnson just not understand rather basic Christian doctrine; or, is he deliberately teaching a false gospel?
Consider this. In the occult doctrine of reincarnation according to The Esoteric Tradition by G. de Purucker, the ongoing process of initiation ultimately leads to ‘resurrection’ into “Masterhood” in the same physical body:
When a man has received his final degree of initiation he is said to be ‘raised’ to Masterhood in the same physical body.
The general case, however, is to be explained by the reassembling of the life-atoms… …These are continuously attracted to and built into the physical body, as it passes from babyhood into childhood into youth, and from youth into manhood – the very life-atoms which had made the Reimbodying Ego’s physical body on Earth in the last earth-life. Thus it is that the body of the former earth-life is resurrected – is ‘arisen.'” [emphasis mine]
http://www.theosociety.org/pasadena/et/et-26.htm
The “Reimbodying Ego” continues reincarnating in perpetuity until it is ‘resurrected’ into “Masterhood.” According to esoteric doctrine Jesus has ascended into “Masterhood” along with Confucius and Buddha before Him. He is a pattern for us to follow. This is what “Tibetan Master DK” [Djwhal Khul] channeled through Alice A. Bailey in her Theosophical book From Bethlehem to Calvary. The book referred to the “five initiations” of the ‘Master Jesus’ as:
1) Birth at Bethlehem
2) Baptism in Jordan
3) Transfiguration on Mount Carmel
4) Crucifixion on Mount Golgotha
5) Resurrection and Ascension
In his exposition on Kingdom Now and associated false doctrine Al Dager states:
Jesus’ uniqueness, to them [theosophists], lies not in His person as the Word of God incarnate, but in His particular anointing as “the Christ” to bring enlightenment and truth for His time in history, just as Buddha and Mohammed did for their eras. Though it is believed that there are exceptional “Christs” for different stages of man’s evolutionary journey, we may all become expressions of the “Christ principle” and thus achieve divinity.
http://www.erwm.com/KingdomTheology2.htm
Compare Dager’s words on Manifest Sons of God doctrine to the ‘babyhood into manhood’ of de Purucker above:
Central to Manifested Sons of God doctrine is the idea that sonship comes through higher revelation. The Christian life is fragmented into stages of maturity: the first step is that of servant of God; the next step is to become a friend of God; following this is to become a son of God and, ultimately, gods ourselves. Yet the Scriptures demonstrate that we are already all three: servants (Galatians 3:10), friends (John 15:14-15), and sons (I John 3:1).
I should point out that the first step to Christian life is accepting Christ’s Atoning work on the cross and becoming born again. [In esoteric tradition, realizing our ‘inherent divinity’ is the first step.] With this in mind, the ‘first step’ above is actually the second and so on making a total of five steps with ‘becoming gods’ ourselves the fifth. This seems to mirror the outline of the Alice Bailey book above and appears to parallel The Esoteric Tradition as well.
Here again are Johnson’s last two sentences:
He was born through Mary the first time and through the resurrection the second time. He was born again.
Is Johnson teaching reincarnation?
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Some time back, Ray brought the blog of Beni Johnson to my attention. Just posting for another look to see what these Bethelites go for in their belief and teaching. I hear the echo of the words of Paul when he commented that he did not permit a woman to teach. I for one do not believe he meant all women, but women who did not know doctrine. This is proof positive women like that still exist and what happens when they are allowed to open their mouths.
So if Bill is teaching reincarnation, his wife Beni is teaching something similar – the resurrction of angels from their “sleep”.
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The best deception is one that resembles 98 % truth, its the 2 % of untruth that catches most people out. This is really the case here with BJ ‘s notion of Jesus being born again.His take on this reminds me of that other horrible teaching that Ken Copeland and Joyce Meyer were peddling some time ago regarding Jesus dying spiritualy.
Was Jesus born again ? . That would imply that He had an old carnal nature .Bill Johnson simply does not get it, I think this passage in Colossians sets the record straight on this issue.
Colossians 1: 18
And, He is the head of the body, the church.He is the begining, the firstborn from the dead, that in everything He might be preeminent.
There can be no question that Jesus died a physical death , and that He rose again from that death, this is where the context of Him being the firstborn from the dead is found.
For BJ to extrapolate this to imply that Jesus was born again is pure deception. How is it possible that one who knew no sin has to be born again? . The question defies logic, but its obvious that it also defies BJ’s feeble mind.
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Quote by C.H. Spurgeon “Discernment is not a matter of simply telling the difference between right and wrong; rather it is telling the difference between right and almost right.”
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HT, I came on that quote a few years ago. I love it and have found it absolutely true.
🙂
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Wow, you guys have done an excellent job! I hope you all copy these saying/audios of Bill Johnson and pass them on to as many people as possible. Put them on Facebook, send them through e-mails, send them to your pastor, if they’re involved with this movement etc. Get the word out! And, if possible, use these explanations that have been explained by others on this site, they’re very good.
If God doesn’t allow sickness or disease, then what does Bill think about the fall in the garden of Eden? Does he think this caught God off guard? God allows everything, to say that God is “in control but not in charge” is to say that the God of the universe is a small, little, pathetic god and that we know more than Him! Bill worships a god of his own making, he’s an idolater. His god is a puny, powerless god. Please Bill, if you ever read this, repent of this idolatry and put your trust in the One, True God, the God of the Bible, the God that allows sickness and heartache so you’ll turn to Him for comfort and not to yourself.
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What does he think about the fall? That’s another video!
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according to the stats 536 have viewed it. 🙂
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Is that 536 views from your site? Wow. It’s almost to 800 on Youtube.
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Yes, it may be a record number here. So the word is getting out there. I am not suprised youtube has so many hits. There will probably be thousands.
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And lest people be inclined to think otherwise, this is not a case of an unusual departure from ordinarily sound teaching. What you hear in this instance is a very good representation of the kind of teaching that comes from BJ and the other pastors at this church on a regular basis – interspersed with a few nuggets of truth here and there and wrapped in a whole lot of “spiritual sounding” and Biblical language. They’ll even read Bible verses (or portions thereof) to back up their points.
They’re not trying to trick people. This is what they truly believe. And now anyone who claims otherwise is “preaching a false gospel”. May God have mercy on the deceived.
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New Order of the Latter Rain (NOLR) and Bill Johnson
Man can become God?
This is a classic NOLR doctrine called “Present Truth”. Several years ago, another false teacher named Tommy Tenney wrote his book, “The God Chasers” and stated that the Old Testament letters did not count for the present and they are just God’s “Love Letters”. Bill Johnson is just parroting the same doctrine. It says that the truth we are to listen to today has to be applicable and coming from the root of a new age/dispensation. In the case of the Present Truth that Johnson is parroting, the source comes from Jesus or the spirit of Jesus thereof and the previous truth the OT prophets spoke by the mouth of God is not applicable. Then coupled with that doctrine, he moves on to the lie that Jesus was born again. Like the Mormons who also have the same doctrine:
Adam – God Doctrine
“As man is, God once was;
as God is, man may be.”
God was once just a man according to both Mormon Kabbalah Church as her handmaiden, the NOLR. Please study Isaac Luria since it is his teachings of “Spiritual Evolution” that they are pulling their doctrines from. It is classic Lurian Kabbalah merged with Christian doctrine to form Christian Kabbalah. It also illustrates the heresy of Modalism, which is just one of the heresies of Kabbalah, LDS, and the NOLR.
Bill Johnson is just another NOLR heretic leading 10s of 1000s of youth into becoming what the Bible calls “False Brethren” or fake mutant christians. Maranatha, Every Nations, Champions For Christ, Campus Crusade for Christ, IHOP, YWAM, etc. are all representative examples of mutant Christianity.
Blake, John. “Author: More teens becoming ‘fake’ Christians” CNN [Living] Aug. 27, 2010.
http://www.cnn.com/2010/LIVING/08/27/almost.christian/index.html
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NOLR History,
Thanks for your input.
I’ve heard of Tenney’s book; but, I’ve not read or heard about it. Never heard of the doctrine of “Present Truth.” Thanks for the elucidation. So, what do they do with the unfulfilled prophecies of the OT? If it’s obsolete they can’t very well apply them to the ‘church’ instead of Israel a la replacement theology. Contradictions, contradictions.
While I’ve heard of the “born again Jesus” of the WoF based on Ephesians 4:9-10, I’ve not before seen anyone pervert the Acts 13 verses as Johnson has above.
Are you sure it’s Lurianic Kabbalah they’re getting their brand of “evolution” from? Could it be Theosophic a la Besant, Blavatsky, Bailey, etc. instead? Or are these basically the same?
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Craig,
Let’s to a small timeline to put this into perspective:
Moses Cordovero – 1522–1570
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Moses_ben_Jacob_Cordovero
Chaim Vital – 1543-1620
“In 1570 Vital became a student of Rabbi Isaac Luria, the Arizal, the foremost kabbalist of the day.”
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chaim_Vital
Jacob Boehme – 1575-1624
“Böhme’s writing shows the influence of Neoplatonist and alchemical writers such as Paracelsus, while remaining firmly within a Christian tradition. He has in turn greatly influenced many anti-authoritarian and mystical movements, such as the Religious Society of Friends, the Philadelphians, the Gichtelians, the Society of the Woman in the Wilderness, the Ephrata Cloister, the Harmony Society, the Zoarite Separatists, Rosicrucianism, Martinism and Christian theosophy. Böhme’s disciple and mentor, the Liegnitz physician Balthasar Walther, who had travelled to the Holy Land in search of magical, kabbalistic and alchemical wisdom, also introduced kabbalistic ideas into Böhme’s thought.”
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jacob_Boehme
Jane Leade – 1623-1704
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jane_Leade
(what Wikipedia entry does not say is that Philadelphian Society members were involved in the translation of Chaim Vital’s Lurian Kabbalist writings from Hebrew to Latin shortly after Amsterdam Marrano Jews led by Kabbalist Menasseh Ben Israel, 1604-1657, were re-admitted into England circa 1655.)
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Menasseh_Ben_Israel
The following myths were taken from the 16th and 17th centuries and incorporated into cults in the 18th-20th centuries:
1) The Indians as the Lost Tribes aka the “Indians as Jews theory. (I witnessed both Rick Joyner and Francis Frangipane promote this Lost Tribes doctrine in Minnesota over 5 years ago).
2) The restoration of the office of Apostles and Prophets. I traced this to the Jewish Kabbalist reincarnation doctrine of “gilgul” syncretised with the Lost Tribes British Israel version where the genetic descendants of the Lost Tribes of Israel are the 12 Nations of Europe. The parallel (but cleverly hidden) counterpart to this is that the souls of ancient Israel will transmigrate into the bodies of British Israel. Putting this all together, you now know the full extension of the “Church as Israel” replacement doctrine that Freemasons embrace and are employing in today’s churches via the “restoration” (reincarnation) of the office of apostles and prophets. This is exactly what Mike Bickle and Bill Johnson are leading 10s of 1000s of youth i.e. “The Elected Seed” or the “Joshua Generation”. This is basically Christian Kabbalah formed by 16th century magicians like John Dee, Jacob Boehme, etc. and later refined by Jane Leade and her Philadelphian Society. It was re-introduced by Blavatsky, Besant, Ledbetter, etc. in the 19th century and re-hatched again my Joseph Smith and his LDS, the founders of the NOLR North Battleford, Saskatchewan Revival (1947-1954) and then later kept alive by the members of the four(4) splinter groups of the North Battleford Revival: 1) John Roberts Stevens and the Church of the Living Word:
***************************************
From:
The Occult Metaphysics of John Robert Stevens
by Woodrow Nichols
UPDATE: A Quarterly Journal on New Religious Movements vol. 7, No. 1 (March 1983)
At the “school of the prophets,” Stevens’ disciples learn how to develop spiritual perception. Sensations in certain parts of their bodies help them interpret their spirituality, as well as others’. The school’s materials list those signs as:
Top of the head: Spirit reaching to God. This is where the human spirit is.
Back of the head: Emotions–pressure and tension in relationship to the Lord and people. If you get a pressure, it’s connected with submission to the Lord. A warm presence means submission is good.
Temples: Heavy pressure means satanic invasion. Light pressure means you are anointed to absorb the word.
Ears: Warm feeling means God is speaking to them. Pressure means you are under a deceptive spirit.
Eyes: Feeling across eyes means spiritual blindness.
Genitals: Sign of creative life, God is going to bring forth something creative in your life.
Hands: A pain in the palm means the work of the cross. A warmth in the palm is a sign of sonship.
Tip of nose: A sign of burning means the person is a worshiper.
Stevens also teaches his disciples how to interpret auras (a field of color that seems to surround a person). The following color key is used to discern what spirit a person has:
Red: Rebellion.
Black: Death {they are spiritually dead)
Brown: Stubbornness, religious spirit
Yellow: A sick yellow means perversion (either sexual or perverting the truth)
Green: Life giving
White: Pure
Blue: Heavenly
Gold: Divinity (the presence of God)
Purple: Royalty
People in The Walk are constantly making signs with their hands and bodies and building up their auras either to prevent psychic attack or to secure blessing.
***************************************
2) The Full Gospel Businessman
3) and 4) I will recall them later.
Helena Petrovna Blavatsky – 1831-1891. Wow! take a good look at this lesbian! The devil incarnate!!
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Blavatsky
Albert Pike – 1809-1891.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Albert_Pike
Excerpt from Chap 28: Knights of the Son in Pike, Albert 1809-1891. Morals and Dogma of the Ancient and Accepted Scottish Rite of Freemasonry. Prepared for the Supreme Council of the Thirty-Third Degree, for the Southern Jurisdiction of the United States, and Published by Its Authority. Charleston, NC, Supreme Council of the Southern Jurisdiction, A.A.S.R., USA, 1871, 1928.
p.753
For all things, says the commentary of Rabbi Jizchak Lorja (Isaac Luria), in a certain most abstruse manner, consist or reside and are contained in Binah, and it projects them, and sends them downward, species by species, into the several worlds of Emanation, Creation, Formation, and Fabrication; all whereof are derived from what are above them, and are termed their out-flowings; for, from the potency which was their state there, they descend into actuality.
p.772
The Hermetic philosophers also drew their doctrines from the Kabalah; and more particularly from the Treatise Beth Alohim or Domus Dei, known as the Pneumatica Kabalistica, of Rabbi Abraham Cohen Irira, and the Treatise De Revolutionibus Animarum (Revolution of Souls) of Rabbi Jitz-chak Lorja (Isaac Luria).
This philosophy was concealed by the Alchemists under their Symbols, and in the jargon of a rude Chemistry,–a jargon incomprehensible and absurd except to the Initiates; but the key to which is within your reach; and the philosophy, it may be, worth studying. The labors of the human intellect are always interesting and instructive.
Joseph Smith – 1805-1844.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Joseph_Smith
http://www.sharpenedsword.com/page/page/3770254.htm
Annie Besant – 1847-1933
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Annie_Besant
Excerpt from:
Besant, Annie. “The Ancient Wisdom: An Outline of Theosophical Teachings” (London: Theosophical Publishing Company, 1897)p.32
“The Hebrew had his “School for the Prophets” (sound familiar? It should….) and his Kabbalah…”
Summary Conclusion
Christian Kabbalah predates Mormon LDS cult, NOLR, HPB, Besant.
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NOLR History,
Classic Lurian Kabbalah, is this the same as the method used by Chuck Pierce (or believed used)?
Your quote:
“As man is, God once was;
as God is, man may be.”
reminds me of “As Above, So Below” or “as God is, so am I” taken from the occult/new age AND quoted in The Message, which is the meaning behind their use of “on earth as it is in heaven” or the concept of open heavens. (They – Johnson, Cindy Jacobs, Bentley, etc.)
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Yes, you’re right on the “as above, so below.” This is what is meant by “everything in the natural has a supernatural correlation”. It’s also the basis for panentheism — the belief that we are all, including plants and animals, interconnected as part of the universe because God is in all.
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“everything in the natural has a supernatural correlation”.
That my friend is also the basis of the false prophetic!
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I haven’t seen the video, my connection is too slow, but i read down this thread and got the gist.
A theology “that doesn’t allow sickness” : that could mean several things. BJ would need to elaborate what he means by that.
What does it mean to “allow” a sickness? It’s a silly use of English.
Does it mean that sickness is “not allowed” in the church? If so, what is the penalty for anyone who gets sick? Excommunication?
He could be pointing to an individual’s faith : what they specifically believe.
E.g. I personally don’t “allow sickness” in my own life: meaning, i don’t believe it is God who makes me sick, BUT He has every right to make me sick as a chastisement for sin.
Let’s get real. Are YOU going to get cancer and die young? How could you answer that question?
Maybe like this, Yes. God could give me cancer anytime for no reason.
Then, is there NO basis in Scripture to believe for God’s protection from disease?
And is a person’s faith TOTALLY IRRELEVANT to what they receive from God?
Some, who’ve left the crazymatic scene would argue that faith is irrelevant, that God just arbitrarily inflicts sickness on anyone He wants to, and that faith, sin, and the devil have no part in the matter.
And this leads to another issue: the issue of finding unity in what we don’t believe in. Some who have left the crazymatic scene are even more confused than BJ and equally false teachers as he is.
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Ian, what Johnson means by “not allowed” is that all believers should never be sick, not a day, not even a headache. This is the same teaching in many wof-ers and the healing rooms which Johnson is associated with. They continue to preach that we should not be sick, although many are, including themselves. It really makes no sense except when we bring in the manifest sons idea that believers are “becoming” something of a greater power/authority than what they truely are. This is evidenced by his saying “we are seeing a time, or beginning to see a time” without sickness, more healings, etc. It is as though believers are evolving into this higher power. A silly use of Engish? This is Johnson’s way of speaking – sarcastic, self seeking, self important.
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I have to add, their whole method of prayer for healing is not a request made to God for the healing, it is a command that God do it. And they even go as far as to teach we have that same power that he does, the power to create, the power to heal, etc. So in saying it is not allowed, many believe all we have to do is command the illness to go or repeat certain scriptures over and over throughout the day or simply believe the sickness does not exist. Doctors are the bad guys to them as Cal Pierce is so found of saying they only “practice” medicine. They believe they have the answer, the method and the power. This is why they hold their many annual “how to” conferences and believe these methods can be taught to others. This is the insanity – they ARE sick and most of them will die from a disease or illness just like nearly everyone else.
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Re: “what Johnson means by “not allowed” is that all believers should never be sick, not a day, not even a headache.”
.
.
.
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Yeah, i thought that is what he meant.
The phrase “should never be sick” is problematic. What does “should never” mean?
And why “should never”? Would it be too ego-deflating for a person “of faith” to get sick?
It seems he is taking a Bible truth and stretching it too far, and constructing his own framework to hang his theology on.
It would be enough to direct people to the promises of God regarding healing and protection, and leave it between them and God.
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Ian, “should never” implies the need to learn to never be sick. They have the answer – the methods, the training, the anointing and the power. Come and get some. It puts them at an advantage over the “little people”, the well meaning but not quite there yet believers. You are correct –
but then, how would they possibly build their kingdom? It would be a wash.
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I’ve been reading all these comments about Bill, Beni, Todd, etc…and I have sat under their teaching. There are things that I question, and things that are totally different and new from how I was raised, but here’s the deal…I’ve never heard them say sickness is not allowed..meaning, if you get sick, there is sin in your life. I’ve never heard that from the church I go to, and it’s affiliated with Bethel. The saying refers to the fact that we recognize that God is not the author of sickness and doesn’t place sickness on his children. As a parent, would you place sickness on your kids to teach them a lesson? I would say NOT! Sickness is from the enemy (Satan) and we choose to pray against the sickness because it’s an attack from the enemy. Nowhere have I heard teachings from these people saying that if you have sickness in your life then you aren’t spiritual enough. And that’s something they make very clear to people who aren’t familiar with seeing healings. So please, before you interrogate someone, read and listen to in depth everything they say. You cannot take one little snip of something someone says and take it out of context. Come on church…let’s be adult about this and love each other. Stop tearing each other down…that can’t make God any happier than what I’ve been reading on here.
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Jill,
Bill Johnson is a false teacher on many points. He is heavily into the word of faith false teachings, the supernatural with false signs and wonders, and is completely off on the reasons why we get sick and die. I am not “interrogating”, nor am I taking things out of context as you put it, but am speaking from a place of experience as I was once a part of an IAHR healing room, which BJ is affiliated and am more than familiar with the witchcraft that goes on in those so called prayer sessions. Yes indeed it IS witchcraft because they believe and teach others they have the same power, the same anointing as Christ and can speak things into existence just as God did when He formed the world. !!! Quite Shocking, isn’t it?
God may not be the author of illness – such a strange way to word it and I do recognize this from as a catch phrase from IAHR. SIN is the author of illness, if you will. We are fallen, and tho we are forgiven through Christ our bodies still get sick, wear out and one day we will die. We are not promised a life without illness or disease, however it IS the teaching of IAHR, as it is with Bethel and all the other WOFers that healing is in the atonement and that people are sick because they do not understand how to receive healing. I assure you, I more than understand what is being taught – in depth. AND I know the lies and tricks they subject others to in an effort to “get them healed”.
Well, only after Christ gives us our new bodies will we see a life without sickness and disease. Until then we continue to battle illness. And if BJ is so sure of himself, why did he have that hernia operation a few years back? Why does he wear glasses? Why is his son deaf? And so it goes with ALL of them, making claims to a right to health that does not exist in the word of God.
Love? If we truly love the Lord we will be more concerned over the truth found in His word, than the sneaky lies hashed by men. Take BJ’s teaching to the word and you will not find them to be the same. There is no love when we allow men like Johnson and Bentley, etc. to continue to deceive the masses and say nothing.
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I should also add that BJ is part of the false apostles and prophets of the NAR set in place by C Peter Wagner.
Nothing good comes from Bethel and we are told in the bible to have nothing to do with those who do not preach the truth.
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(But i don’t think in terms of “not allowing sickness”, i think in terms of the promises of God concerning His protection from disease. What i “don’t allow” is to believe a lie : anything LESS than the promises of God : i don’t allow unbelief, i won’t entertain it)
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Quote from Bill Johnson
Hebrews 1 says that in times past God spoke to us through the prophets. But now he speaks to us through Jesus. What’s the point? That message was for then. Jesus is for now. Without that shift there is a constant reproducing of an anointing and a ministry that is not for today. Yesterday’s anointing is like yesterday’s manna.
……………….
I wanted to go back on this video and comment on this quote from Bill Johnson, because yet again he displays a penchant for building a theology that is based on a missrepresented interpretation of scripture.
The law and the prophets all pointed to one man, that being Jesus, in fact , Jesus affirms this in Matt 5:17;
Do not think that I have come to abolish the Law or the Prophets; I have not come to abolish them , but to fulfil them.
If Christ is the fulfilment of the Prophets, why , as BJ states , would their message be for another time.The words of these men of old are as relevant today as they were when they delivered them to the Israelites.
The passage in Hebrews 1 that is referenced by BJ is simply saying that whereas God once spoke to His people through Prophets, He now speaks to His people through Christ. Its still the same message.
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I just purchased, from the Bethel store, the DVD of Bill’s message about a, “Different gospel”. How man you you would like to see it on Youtube? Do you prefer audio or video? I can even make it longer if you’d like, I think they allow up to 15 minutes now.
PS: Yes, I actually gave them my money, but it was only $5 and I think it could be of some help to people on both sides of this issue.
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I’d like to take a look at it and possibly transcribe it for my blog here. I do prefer video, but you decide what is best on your end. The money is worth spending if we can show the truth and help others! I’ve done the same with a book just recently.
🙂
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Ok, give me a day or so, and I’ll upload it to Youtube and then pass on the link.
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OK!!!!
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Common Link to Kabbalah
ray writes,
“
Ok, fine, then first take a look at the doctrines of the Freemasons, Rosicrucians, Mormons, JWs, and Scientology. Kabbalah doctrines are the common link between them all. Once you get a handle of just a few basic Kabbalist doctrines such as Gilgul and Tikkun, you should be able to refute them all.
Bill and Benni Johnson, Rick and Julie Joyner, Mike Bickle, Bill Hamon, Cindy Jacobs, Bob Weiner, Rice Broocks, Steve Murrell, Phil Bonasso, C. Peter Wagner, Dutch Sheets, Che Ahn, etc. are all practicing theosophists and some are Freemasons like Kenneth Copeland. Benny Hinn, Paul Crouch, Paul Cain, Bob Jones, they are all cutting their doctrines and practices from the same cloth exactly as the 19th and 20th century theosophists like Mary Baker Eddy, R. Swinburne Clymer, Joseph Smith, Aleister Crowley, etc. Even Adolf Hitler created his own “designer religion” based upon the myth and legend that Germany’s people were reincarnated from a pool of past souls of a super-race. Hitler did this to suppress Martin Luther’s Christian Reformation that would never allow Germany to support Hitler’s dictatorship. So it is with the reincarnated Apostles and Prophets of the New Order of the Latter Rain (NOLR). Hitler co-opted Germany through myths of reincarnation of a Super-Race of Aryans (a theme also common to Blavatsky’s writings) and likewise the NOLR is co-opting American, Canadian, and Western European Churches by introducing a virtually identical (and formerly hidden) Kabbalist-based doctrine of reincarnation (Gilgul) combined with the modified modalist doctrines of Joachim of Fiore. The Joachim’s scheme, God is manifest as different entities that evolve through time i.e. modes. There are three(3): 1) The Father Time, 2) the time of the Son and 3) the new age of the spiritus or spirit when Adam regains supernatural abilities and the world returns to a pre-fallen paradisical state.
In the 17th century, the Philadelphians took Kabbalist cosmology that things evolve through cycles of reincarnation called Gilgul and syncretised this doctrine with the belief that the Seven Churches in Asia (Rev 1-3) represent seven(7) distinct time periods as opposed to the three ages of Joachim of Fiores’ doctrine. William Branham parroted these Philadelphian Society beliefs in the 60’s and anyone can order his book on the subject. Branham never mentions the Philadelphian Society because it is rare for these apostates to ever reveal the sources for their doctrines, but sometimes, like in the case of George Warnock and Chuck Pierce they come right out and admit it. Many times apostates like Benny Hinn and Kenneth Copeland simple change the names for the same old terms and nobody seems to catch on for lack of a historical background. “My people parish for lack of knowledge”?
Unless we Christians learn from the history of heretical doctrines, we are doomed to suffer these doctrines from again infecting churches and sending literally millions into hell and being ripped off literally $Trillions. the one key tool we have now that we didn’t have in times past is the internet and high-speed communications. This is the new Galileo Telescope technology that the late Dr. Walter Martin said would come one day soon:
“From Parchment to Pixels: The Christian Countercult on the Internet”
http://www.cesnur.org/2001/london2001/cowan.htm
Bill Johnson proves he is really stupid to promote false doctrines that can easily be traced to heresy within minutes after he speaks them. The game is over for these people. Even average folks now can refute them with ease. It’s time to turn the tables on these “Apostolic and Pathetic” losers.
Their Stairway to Heaven; to becoming a “christ” is through the Doctrine of Correspondences. Each part of man, animals, nature, minerals, etc. has a corresponding element in the heavens. This is why they found a Kabbalah-based Jupiter Talisman in Joseph Smith’s body after they successfully shot him in the Carthage jail. (many times the magic doesn’t work so well and results in “negative patient outcome”…)”
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I have been reading this thread with interest because I have a friend of a friend who is getting involved with a healing room in Hawaii. So I have been doing extra research into John G. Lake, Cal Pierce and of course Bill Johnson.
I just watched a training video of a teaching from the healing room director John Keough, in Hawaii..It was titled “Why people fail to receive healing.”
Very sad. The reasons people did not receive healing…lack of instruction on their own part, traditions of men instead of God, unbelief of the one praying for them,??? (wow)..unbelief of the breaking of natural laws…the afflication is demonic related…there is iniquity in their heart…lukewarmness..wronging of their neighbor, lack of diligence or seeking, a confining of God to miracles only..not acting on their faith and last.. a denial of God’s Word….
Unbelievable!!!! Of course the false healers were not to blame.
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Hi Kim. Maybe you want to send her here first…or give her my e-mail address. The teachings behind these healing rooms (IAHR, under Cal Pierce) are extremely dangerous and deceptive. Much of my writing including the very first articles addressed these teachings!
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Bill Johnson – “Yesterday’s anointing is like yesterday’s manna.”
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The anointing IS the Holy Spirit. Then how could a “yesterday’s anointing” exist? Only if there was a “yesterday’s Holy Spirit”.
His foundational understanding is askew.
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I hear them talking about “the annointing” and “the glory” and often wonder what exactly they are talking about. It sounds like they are assuming that the Holy Spirit is their “super-charged” battery, rather than a Holy and personal God.
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Or that term “reproducing an anointing and ministry” what is this guy talking about? Can anyone ‘produce/reproduce’ an anointing? Oh, I know what he is IMPLYING, but it is so far off base.
You are right, at the foundation of this magical mystery tour BJ and others teach is the belief that ‘the anointing’ is some kind of force/power that gets passed on, mantled, created with the right music, carried by words, and apparently, reproduced. And so in his paradigm the anointing just needs to be manipulated just so to produce healing, etc.
They talk a lot about relationship, but when it comes to things like sickness/healing or hardship or ‘lack’ or similar, they revert to the pagan course of trying to ‘figure out’ why it is happening. They try to figure out what ‘law’ is in effect, or what ‘principality’ needs to be identified, and then apply the right ritual to fix it. They can spend a lot of time trying to decipher the workings of darkness.
We go to Him as our Father. Out of our blood bought redemption, our adoptive relationship we go to Him for any and all needs, right? We do not look to figure out some kind of formula that requires a secret incantation/ a certain set of declarations/ certain secret information.
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Very well said ruthsongs! And nice to see you again. 🙂
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I think it almost frightens me to think that there are professing Christians who do not believe that sin and sickness could ever be related : that there is no possibility that, if they sinned, that the Father would chastise them as sons, to bring them to repentance.
And you have forgotten the exhortation which speaks unto you as unto children, My son, despise not the chastening of the Lord, nor faint when you are rebuked of him: For whom the Lord loves he chastens, and scourges every son whom he receives. If you endure chastening, God deals with you as with sons; for what son is he whom the father chastens not? But if you be without chastisement, of which all are partakers, then are you illegitimate children, and not sons. Furthermore we have had fathers of our flesh who corrected us, and we gave them reverence: shall we not much rather be in subjection unto the Father of spirits, and live? For they verily for a few days chastened us after their own pleasure; but he for our profit, that we might be partakers of his holiness. Now no chastening for the present seems to be joyous, but grievous: nevertheless afterward it yields the peaceable fruit of righteousness unto them who are trained by it. Therefore lift up the hands which hang down, and the feeble knees; And make straight paths for your feet, lest that which is lame be turned out of the way; but let it rather be healed. Follow peace with all men, and holiness, without which no man shall see the Lord:
(Heb 12:5-14)
That’s what i was pointing to in my response to the Bill Johnson thing. Things are so confused today. Some who leave extreme movements jump out of the fat into the fire: they believe things equally as false.
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Very good point Ian. Thanks.
If illness is from the Lord to chastise, how do we know it? Is it all illnesses that come on us?
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Hi sister. How do we know anything about anything concerning the things of God? It could only be by the Holy Spirit teaching us. By experience, walking with Jesus, continuing in the Word of God.
A knowing in our spirit.
No, no sound believer believes that all illness is a chastisement from God, neither that all illness is due to a lack of faith.
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Hi Ian and M’Kayla,
I want to say that there is a gospel that Bill Johnson knows nothing about. Yes, there is healing in the atonement, but I believe that that refers mostly to the healing of sin and its effects in our lives. Jesus healed the sick to prove to the Jews that he could forgive sin. The healing is spiritual, more than physical. (It is the same with the MSOG doctrine…. we are being conformed into Jesus Christ’s image, NOT become CHRIST) I am not saying that God can not heal people. I am just saying that there is a higher place in the spirit where because of illness or pain you seek God and HIS will only and surrender to HIM completely. Physically healed or not, you are still healed, if you know what I mean. The flesh will always be fallen. “Adam” is only the vessel, the dirt man of flesh, that the New Creation man, the heavenly man, is planted in and lives through and grows in.
The gospel that Johnson and his signs and wonders buddies reject is the gospel of pain and suffering. If Jesus learned obedience through suffering, how much more will we??
In Gal 4: 13 Paul says “As you know, it was because of an illness that I first preached the gospel to you. ”
Also, in 1 Timothy 5:23 Paul instructs Timothy:
“Stop drinking only water, and use a little wine because of your stomach and your frequent illnesses.”
BUT if you infer, as Johnson does, that Paul came back with a DIFFERENT GOSPEL that was FALSE, then you discredit what he says. This is discrediting to the entire NT, because where does one then draw the line between truth and error?
I believe that this is done to cause cognitive dissonance (where one holds two conflicting ideas or beliefs in the mind at the same time causing anxiety). This is often used in mind control groups.
Here is an interesting article worth reading:
http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/1030659/posts
COGNITIVE DISSONANCE
Leon Festinger is a psychologist who studied groups that predicted the end of the world. He found that most members became stronger than ever when the prophecy failed. His investigation revealed that members had to find a way to cope psychologically with the failure. They needed to maintain order and meaning in their life. They needed to think they were acting according to their self-image and values. Festinger described this contradiction which they had to overcome as what has become known as the “COGNITIVE DISSONANCE THEORY.” The three components he described are:
“CONTROL OF BEHAVIOUR” – “CONTROL OF THOUGHTS” – “CONTROL OF EMOTIONS”
Each component has a powerful effect on the other two: CHANGE ONE AND THE OTHERS WILL TEND TO FOLLOW. When all three change the individual undergoes a complete change. Festinger summarised the basic principle:
“If you change a person’s behaviour, his thoughts and feelings will change to minimise the dissonance.”
When there is a conflict between thoughts, feelings or behaviour, then those in conflict will change to minimise the contradiction. This is because a person can only tolerate a certain amount of discrepancy between these components which make up his identity. In cults this dissonance is created to exploit and control them.
Steven Hassan, author of Combating Cult Mind Control, added a fourth component to Festinger’s:
“CONTROL OF INFORMATION”
By controlling the information one receives you can control and restrict the individual’s ability to think for himself. You limit what he is able to think about.
………………………………………………
So, does BJ know what he is doing? In my opinion he does and he is doing it knowingly. So, my question is, why is the man wearing glasses??? 😉
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When you stop and think about this it becomes absolute craziness that people believe lies as truth. They are not found in the bible, not found as evidence, such as BJ’s need for glasses. How in the world does he explain THAT to his followers? So what are they clinging to? A need to become something greater than what they are, hence MSOG.
Very good info Truthspeaker – thanks!!!
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Thanks, Ian. I am always learning the ways God is working to change my heart so that I will become steadfast and mature in Christ (James 1). Sure, a miraculous healing will certainly bring joy, but how much more miraculous is it that my HEART be changed through repentance and prayer while God teaches me to patiently trust Him; that I will truly believe that He works ALL THINGS according to HIS purpose. THAT, my friends, is a miracle if there ever was one!
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Sandy – 🙂 you got it girl! 🙂
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Pingback: Bill Johnson Falsely Teaches Scripture « Truthspeaker’s Weblog
Thanks Pal! 🙂
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While I’m working on getting the video of Bill’s message, “The Real Jesus”, check out this one that my friend and I just put together.
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Quote from previous post by Nolr,
Bill Johnson proves he is really stupid to promote false doctrines that can easily be traced to heresy within minutes after he speaks them. The game is over for these people. Even average folks now can refute them with ease. It’s time to turn the tables on these “Apostolic and Pathetic” losers.
……….
This is so true, anybody can and should be using scripture to check that what they hear , see and read is from God , and not the other source.The frustrating thing is this, very few people are doing so.Not only are the likes of BJ and co spiritually blind, but evidently many of the sheep suffer the same blindness.
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Hi Ray.
You know I think the blindness has much to do with that “anointing” – the feelings, the emotions, the physical manifestations and all that go along with those who teach and practice charismania. Whatever demonic power is at work is strong enough to convince these people the false teachings are true. They become so caught up in what they feel or sense that nothing else matters. Some that I knew don’t believe they need to read their bibles because they have gained such a strong anointing that the wisdom of God is just right there for them anytime they need to draw on it. They are very much like drug addicts or alcoholics in that behavior, running from conference to conference for the next dose. It is obsessive compulsive behavior having nothing to do with true discipleship.
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I think everything that’s been said about Bill Johnson and that line of teaching has been true.
Not wanting to harp on, but i’m interested in the foundational base ( i could say philosophical base, but that would trip up some).
I mean, it’s only natural to not “accept” sickness. Just as natural as it is to not “accept” death.
1Co 15:26 The last enemy that shall be destroyed is death.
We don’t fear death, but it’s still an enemy.
When Lazarus died, Jesus wept. There’s nothing nice about death. It’s an enemy.
On one hand we accept it as a fact of life, but on the other hand we can never accept it, it is our enemy.
See, Paul told Timothy, take a little wine for your illness. It will help. He didn’t say “lay down and die”. If you can do anything to stop the illness: DO IT. You won’t be resisting God by trying to get better.
So, even this reveals that they didn’t “accept” sickness.
Show me one person today who truly “accepts” their sickness? If they did, they would never take pain killers, never seek any help or assistance what so all.
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M’Kayla, I’ve been asked if I had the entire message from Bill’s message on “Jesus was born again”, so, here it is if anybody would like it:
http://www.mediafire.com/?txg6oaky1t38jrn
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RE: “..that I will truly believe that He works ALL THINGS according to HIS purpose.”
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This should be true in all circumstances.
If i got sick and went to the doctor, it doesn’t mean that i don’t believe “He works ALL THINGS according to HIS purpose”.
I know He has a purpose in my sickness, but i would still seek to be free of it: either by medicine, or prayer, or both.
If a person truly believed that God wanted them to stay sick, then why are they going to the doctor? And then to have the gall to criticize those who seek God for healing?
(i’m not speaking of you, M’Kayla)
Like, “Oh, you should just believe that God is in control!”
errr, yes, so does that mean that believing that God is in control means we should not take medicine or see the doctor?
God DOES want us to not have any contradictions in our understanding and our life.
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Bill Johnson says that he “doesn’t allow sickness”.
But NO ONE allows sickness, everyone wants to be free of it.
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Yes, and he and others who are like-minded believe they have the supernatural ability or power to overcome it. They believe they can speak certain words as decrees or declarations and the illness will have to go. They believe they have the same power as Jesus Christ. This is what is meant when he/they claim to “not allow”, believing they have the power to change their situations. This isn’t limited to sickness/healing, but in all areas of their lives. They “speak things into existence”. But this is not the case, not what the bible teaches which is to ASK for what we need, to pray for healing, etc. I personally believe we become ill because we are still fallen, we are not completed here on earth and yes, God allows it to happen. The most important “healing” of all is healing from sin through salvation. These false prophets and apostles hold physical and emotional healing in very high regard. It is a loss in comparison or to be presented in the manner and regard of importance in which they do. This is why they are still sick and many of them die. Their methods of healing do not work.
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My take on his meaning is that he doesn’t allow sickness in his theology for any reason. To me he is saying there is NO way sickness could be chastisement. So if a Christian is sick, it couldn’t possibly be because of sin or even just down right stupid choices. Classic WOF.
What about John 5:14? Later Jesus found him at the temple and said to him, “See, you are well again. Stop sinning or something worse may happen to you.”
What about “Is anyone among you sick? Let them call the elders of the church to pray over them and anoint them with oil in the name of the Lord. And the prayer offered in faith will make the sick person well; the Lord will raise them up. If they have sinned, they will be forgiven. ”
Not that in this case either are we instructed to just lay down and die like Ian said. Repentance is in order and prayer in faith. But it seems to me sickness could be the result of sin -but not always.
And that scripture from Acts makes me think it could play a part in manifesting God’s will (Paul was delayed in a city due to illness and so the gospel was preached) – but again not always.
What about the ones who were sick because they had not rightly discerned the body? I don’t really understand that, but there does seem to be a cause/effect……?
I think we go down a wrong road on this issue when we try to take an all or nothing approach. Like it could never be the hand of God, or it’s always the hand of God. It’s just the way it is, don’t fight it , or if you are sick you are outside the will of God.
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There is a conference in Spokane this weekend and I am especially worried for two of the attendees. Will all of you reading this, join me in prayer for discernment for those attending, that their eyes will be opened to the truth? Thank you!
kim
http://healingrooms.com/index.php?src=spiritualhungerconference
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This is the IAHR annual conference and many, many people attend. Don Potter who is doing the “worship” also tours with Wynonna Judd and I think he is associated with Morningstar (Rick Joyner). So you see the Bill Johnson – Cal Pierce connection that I have been pointing to. The Riveras are also involved in worship and their music is just plain odd. I could never listen to it much it bothered me so, even back then.
Thanks Kim for the head’s up on this. Yes, I will pray with you.
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Folks from my area go to this conference every year too and have for years. It is is a huge part of their year.
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IWTT it would be better if you asked that question on the site where the comment was left. This topic is about Bill Johnson, not the Kansas City Prophets. Thanks for your understanding.
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Pingback: Bill Johnson’s ‘Born Again’ Jesus, Part I « m'kayla's korner
I listened to the full 12-20-09 sermon from which the “born-again” snippet was culled. It was funny how he just injected it in there, as if he thought he was being all sneaky. His voice and manner seems to indicate there is an agenda…
All he could talk about was increase of favor/release of blessing and reward, increase, release, increase, release and on and on and on (I am so tired of this lingo). And his comparison of us needing to increase in wisdom and stature and “favor”, with Jesus increasing in wisdom and stature – and “favor” – as he grew (Luke 2:40)…kind of strange. So he instructs everyone to lay hands on their neighbor in the next seat and has them pray for increase in wisdom, stature, and favor “before God and before men”. And to top it off his closing prayer ends abruptly not even saying “in Jesus name”, or “Amen”.
What I heard was a very ‘prosperity’ man-based based message – – and this his supposed Christmas message (he says at the beginning he’s not good at those kinds of messages). Good grief.
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nuggets2you
I won’t post your comment and link because Henry Wright is false in his teachings and his claims. He is highly used in the healing rooms and I am more than familiar with this deception. Please do some research in the bible regarding his claims and ask yourself where his info comes from. It is not the bible!
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You people remind me of why I left organized religion and church. I had to leave it to find people that had the faith to believe everything in the New Covenant that Jesus paid the price to give me. I’m an heir and if your religious mindset traps you from receiving, then I’ll gladly take your share of the promises. Most of you appear to hope you can “earn” from your Daddy a skinny goat when He’s actually already given you a fattened calf.
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“Nothing good comes from Bethel and we are told in the bible to have nothing to do with those who do not preach the truth.” mkayla, “the truth” is referring to preaching the New Covenant. Again, do you really think you can “earn” your way into righteousness? Ha! You only get it by receiving by FAITH. If it’s too good to be true, then it’s probably from God. Faith is NOT Christian duties done under religion, i.e. old covenant. Have any of you read Galations and Hebrews? Unbelievable! No wonder the muslims won’t listen.
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steinmann, I don’t see what your two comment rant has to do with Bill Johnson and his false teaching.
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Gee – I wonder (she said sarcastically) what he does with the scripture that says: And he could there do no mighty work, save that he laid his hands upon a few sick folk, and healed [them]. Mark 6:5 – I have a x-friend who’s fallen under the teaching of this idiot and Copeland. She used to be brokenhearted and softhearted and now is chasing after the wind.
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I think it’s amazing how many people are quick to judge other people. Do you think the people who have been healed by Bill Johnson consider him a liar? Do you think they even care that his doctrines don’t agree 100% with the others? I am going to be seeing him come this November in Springfield MO, and I plan to go there to learn and grow. I think maybe some of you should do the same, learn and grow, because I don’t think Jesus would appreciate insults and criticism of someone who calls upon him to perform miracles and give him the glory.
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Anthony
How can you read this article and still take that stand, or did you even bother to read it?
The things that go on at Bethel and unfortunately many other NAR-WOF places are not of God. We know this because the things taught and practiced are not in His word. If you are a Christian it is your duty to study the word and to discern false teachers, and to take a part in warning others and preaching the real gospel. Bill Johnson and others will not teach you that. They are bringing you into contact with the other jesus warned about in the bible. And yes, I believe Jesus Christ cares very much who speaks His truth and who does not! Doctrine that is not 100% in agreement with the word of God is called false doctrine. There are no real miracles going on at Bethel, but they can be compared to the enchantments of Pharaoh’s magicians in Exodus. You remember what happened to them, don’t you?
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Actually when we know scripture it is easy to spot a false teacher. On the matter of judging Matthew 7 teaches that we are not be to hypocrites when we make judgments. But make judgments we must. The passage continues to instruct us to enter through the gate, walk on the narrow path, build on the right foundation, test the fruit….Most important is says to not only hear these words but to do them. Obedience to His Word is His will.
Verse 7:22 in Matthew is very important here. Jesus says that he will not know many who call him “Lord, Lord” and who have peformed many miracles. So these are not determining factors.
It seems you are saying that what he teaches doesn’t matter as long as a need is met? May I pray and beg you not to go?
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Typical reaction…”Our viewpoint is the only viewpoint and anything else is of the Devil!” Have you yourself ever bothered to read (or listen to) his books? The man teaches nothing but love, healing and revival. You can sit here and quote all you like, but I can do the same. Matthew 7:16 – “By their fruit you will recognize them. Do people pick grapes from thornbushes, or figs from thistles?” Matthew 5:11 – “Blessed are you when people insult you, persecute you and falsely say all kinds of evil against you because of me.” I suggest if you truly feel the need to claim someone to be a false prophet, you should examine the words of Harold Camping, the preacher who keeps giving the entire Christian community a black eye every time he tells people that he has predicted when the world is going to end, not someone who is widely accepted by the Christian community as a legitimate and loving preacher. You can pray all you want, by the way, but I will still be going. I believe in the spirit of discernment, and I feel nothing but excitement about meeting him. And I’m not someone who is easily fooled by people. I’m a salesman by profession…I can tell when someone is “feeding me a line.”
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Anthony I didn’t think you came here for the truth but to create an argument. The teachings of Bill Johnson are not found in the bible. When you hold his words next to the words of God they do not line up. I came out of this false teaching so I have personal experience involved here. So, if you will not listen to someone who has been through it and is warning others to not go there, and you will not listen to the word of God you only have the words and books and videos of a false and self appointed apostle, prophet and teacher to rely on. Christ did not come for healing, but to save sinners. The words of John the Baptist were not “love”, but “repent!!”. Not all people are healed because only God can heal through His divine will, not the will, whim or teaching of another, no matter how good it sounds. Christ healed to show the people He came from the Father God because they knew only God could bring healing.
In the same way true prophecy is not about a person, plans, goals or gifts, it is about Christ. Believers are not called to set up a kingdom so that Christ can return via the 7 mountains, they are not to gather under “fathers” for teaching. Christ will set up His kingdom when He returns and His return is not dependent on actions of believers here on earth. It is a time set by the Father and no one knows when that will happen.
Christ was not born again, He is God in the flesh, sinless and not in need of repentance or forgiveness which is the process of second birth. The bible does not tell us to protect false teachers but to expose them.
I am thankful to the Lord for bringing me out of the grip of false teachers, the false prophetic and the false signs and experiences of the supernatural. I am thankful for the teachings of scripture which once studied show a clear differentiation between the true and the false, no matter how often the false comes labeled as love, love, love. I am thankful for all the men and women who toiled day and night, some giving their very lives so that I could have my own hand held bible. And I am thankful for an all seeing all powerful Mighty God that could see past my silliness and need for fleshly fulfillment to bring me back to the His truth. All glory is given to God alone and to no other for His mighty saving grace and truth made possible through the death and resurrection of His Son Jesus Christ. I am very thankful for the few chapters in the book of John in which Jesus taught about the Holy Spirit, again making a clear and definitive description of the truth in who the Holy Spirit is and how He operates. Such a knowledge is catalyst for seeing the false spirit of Bethel-Charimania-NAR-WOF for what it is. I am thankful for my Lord who has made it quite clear to me the need for knowledge of spiritual matters written in His word above and beyond physical healing and supernatural experiences for the life that comes after this one. I am thankful that He continues to work through me leading others to the truth and in that He sees more than I.
If you go to Bethel you do so at your own spiritual peril. This is not a game, this is not a battle of who can quote the most powerful scripture, nor is my blog a place for argument! This is not a matter of feelings labeled as “discernment”. This is a moment of truth, one that could change your life forever. Bill Johnson has nothing for you in that area and your stubbornness to be a part of Oz will not change the truth for what it is. You need to seriously ask yourself who your lord is, Bill Johnson or Jesus Christ. They both have powerful messages, one is an imposter.
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Anthony, BJ is not feeding you a line. He sincerely believes what he is saying. He loves people. He has a wonderfully “humble” quality about him. But he’s wrong. And in the truest sense, he is NOT humble, because he insists that scripture conform to HIS OWN will, rather than the other way around. You may want to ask yourself why BJ and his ministry are so important that you are willing to close your eyes to blantant untruth. You KNOW it’s not just a slip of judgement here and there. It’s willful disobediance to God and His Word.
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your so funny. Bethel is a church I know that actually believes what scripture teaches. That actually raises the Christian bar UP TO God’s standard of Faith. Do you know the old hymn? and I emphasize that it is and old hymn: “I have a river of life flowing out of me, it makes the lame walk and the blind to see….” Bethel and Bill Johnson hold this standard up to live by. Doctors are a part of healing..they aren’t left out. People wear glasses….the Lord does take people…We see through a glass darkly. No one knows the thoughts of God but the Spirit alone. The point is not to put God in a box and make the creator of the universe fit into your reasoning. Do you understand every one of the billion of galaxies that exist? Do comprehend how the mane of a horse is knit together. (read Job 39) Because you do not. We are a part of God’s creation, not the center of it and if there is one church on this earth that humbly loves God and seeks to do His will alone it is Bethel. They don’t alwyas do it perfectly…who does? You should focus on considering your brothers and sisters in Christ your family and bring unity instead of divisiveness. There isn’t any kudos or awards given in heaven for picking apart teachings. Paul says we should be diligent to preserve the bond of peace. If Mr. Johnson is wrong, he’d be the first to admit it.
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Ginny, your arguments for Bill Johnson and Bethel do not hold. If you would take a look at his teachings, you will not find them in the word of God. I am not looking for “kudos or awards for picking apart teachings”. I am however, doing the work of exposing false teachers and prophets, warning others to see for themselves and to do the same. There are quite a few scriptures in the bible urging believers to do this, and you will do well to look them up and ask the Lord to show you the truth.
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Ginny, I should also add that you are correct in that people wear glasses, they die, etc. It is only by God’s sovereign will that any are healed. The problem is that Bill Johnson and many others believe that healing is in the atonement, and because of this we should all be healed of any and all disease. This is typical word of faith teaching.
Bob Jones, the heralded and sought after, very false prophet even goes as far as to say that some will even overcome death. I ask you where is any of this in the bible? I will answer. It is not – period.
Not enough? – to continue – Bill Johnson and Cal Pierce believe that the disciples missed the boat in their true calling, Pierce even goes as far as to say they DID NOT GET IT RIGHT. Hear this – the men who walked and talked with Jesus, who saw first hand His power, who it was revealed to first that Jesus was their Messiah, the women along with them who were also the first to see the empty tomb were wrong. Johnson adds, that we are not seeing 100% healings because we continue to fall as they did, but the time will come when everyone will be healed, and to that Pierce will add that hospitals, hospices and the like will one day be empty. So, I ask you, what is it they are waiting for?
Because you don’t know of these teachings tells me that you don’t know what it is you argue against here because if you did you would not stand in protection of these very false and very dangerous teachers. We cannot follow Christ and man.
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please show the whole sermon, don’t cut a short part and call it false….show the whole context please
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The whole sermon is available and Johnson is known quite well for his false teaching. There is nothing hidden, nothing taken out of context. Stop protecting the wolves!
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Bill Johnson’s pernicious heresy is spreading like a disease and many have been unsuspectingly caught up into it! Watch out for Grace Midtown church in Atlanta, GA, which is ripe with his lies and also Nightlight Atlanta, an anti-human trafficking outreach that has been infected by his false gospel!
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Hi Michael. One thing we have noticed is all the humanitarian efforts and organizations rising up within these false ministries and churches. It is good to help save people, but if there is no true gospel taught there is no hope for true salvation. I feel it may be only a ploy to enlarge their own number of followers.
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Apart from humanitarian efforts, there are other “ministries” from Bethel that at first glance sound fun, exciting and effective.
The main one I’m referring to is “Treasure Hunting.” When I initially heard about the practice, I ran out and got the book (as I was attending an NAR church and had bought into all the hype at the time.) Basically, Treasure Hunting is when a group of people gather and ask God to give them prophetic information about someone they’re supposed to minister to as He leads them. The group makes a list of “clues” given by the Lord to follow in order to locate and reach out to a person of His choosing. There are some amazing stories in the book (if they can be believed?)
What are your thoughts about Treasure Hunting?
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Oh, yes….Treasure Hunting is another form of the false prophetic. There is no gospel explained to the people, just warm fuzzies and promises of the future to assure them God loves them – and He does. But this is expressed thru the death of His Son Jesus as stated in John 3:16. There isn’t any true prophecy in these declarations and any psychic can do the same thru familiar spirits. And yes, the words they get can be quite accurate, but they are not from God. How do we know? Find this kind of activity in the bible…it simply is not there. TH and all forms of false prophetic claims “seed planting” to justify itself, but again, it’s all about the person, not about the Lord. John the Baptist came preaching repentance, in Acts many heard the word and repented…it is the will of the Lord that all are saved, not just one here and there….how has this changed? No, Kevin Dedmond (excuse spelling), the author, is another false teacher making his living off the masses who choose to follow his teaching and not that of Christ who they claim to know and believe in. I heard of this book while still involved in healing rooms and false prophetic and wondered WHY we needed ANOTHER book, ANOTHER teaching to do the same thing…all of it is false, false, false. When the focus of a prophecy is on a PERSON, their ministry, their effectiveness, how they will go out to the masses and change things..a prophet to the nations…etc. and so on… we know it is NOT of Christ.
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M’Kayla,
I just wanted to say that, I too recently was starting to get carried away in this junk, I looked up to Bethel so much (their music) and a group of my friends and I wanted to go soon (some more than others) I stopped listening to Bill a few months ago because something didn’t set right in my spirit. I have just stuck with listening to: Jim Cymbala, David Platt and maybe a couple of others here and there that I know are firm in the word. A group of my friends and I would get together every weekend “seeking God” we would have prayer and worship at different peoples houses, which there is nothing wrong with wanting to seek the Lord, but it got to the point where we were trying to “be like Bethel” and see who had a “revelation” or “vision”. There is a bible study that I have been going to since 2007 and it is led by one of the most real and humble men I know. He absolutely loves us and only wants us to follow Jesus and stay fixed on Him. He has recently been concerned about some of us, and has been holding a bible study once a week for the past 3 weeks over false teachers and prophets. I didn’t ever realize how deep all of it was and how deceiving Bill Johnson is until Mr. Steve brought it to our attention. I don’t believe that we had gotten “too far” into it, but it definitely was heading in that direction and I am SO thankful to have REAL Godly people in my life to lead me in the right direction, now I know not to put my faith in anyone else other than Jesus. So many people are being led astray and are being so easily deceived, and it is scary. Just like you, I want to warn everyone I can about these false teachers and doctrines. Reading your blog has also helped a lot knowing that my friend and I aren’t the only ones out there dealing with this.
Thanks again! ❤
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I appreciate that you are diligent in exposing false teachings that are invading the church today. Really eye opening and scary! At the same time, let us be careful with our words so that we can be found blameless on the Day of Judgement. Our words can speak life or death and we do not want to be found cursing those that the Lord desires to bless. Remember, the Lord does not wish that anyone should perish but that all would come to repetance. That is His heart. Let us not love with words or speech but in action and in truth. Spend your time interceding for them and ask the Lord for wisdom on how to expose them without putting yourself in danger of being judged yourself. James 5:9
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ZKC, time for you to do some research on what the bible teaches on exposing false teachers and prophets and warning against them. God does not want to bless them, but to expose them for what they are.
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ZKC. I took a look at the verse you supplied for your support. I may be wrong but I believe that James 5:9 is referring to how we, believers, interact with each other in times of hardship. Verse 10 continues and gives further insight into the passage about patience with each other while suffering.
Scripture though is clear that many who claim to know Jesus do not. Johnson is teaching a false Jesus. 2 John 10-11 gives clear instruction on how to deal with false teachers. ” Do not receive him into your house nor greet him; for he who greets him shares in his evil deeds.” This is how we can remain blameless.
Irenaeus recorded that John would not even enter a bathhouse in Ephesus when he discovered that a gnostic teacher Cerinthus was inside. John loved the truth so much that he would not even casually associate with the false teachers.
Today we must refute false teaching with the plain truth. Paul told Titus in 1:9 to “rebuke those who contradict it. (sound doctrine) and that ‘they must be silenced”. 1:11 “rebuked sharply” 1:13..
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ZKC,
“You too, be patient and stand firm, because the LORD’s coming is near.” James 5:8
Truth is the Word of God who is Jesus Christ in the flesh. We stand firm in that Word, holding it up to others so that they might also be set free from the fruitless deeds of darkness, which include EVERY falsehood perpetrated against the Word of God. James 5:9 tells us not to grumble against our brothers, i.e., those who are following the Word of God in truth and love. It says NOTHING about exposing falsehoods and lies and the bad fruit of the “ministries” that push those falsehoods onto the Body of Christ. Wolves are NOT our brothers and sisters in Christ. They are deceivers and deceived. I pray for God to have mercy on them and bring them to the truth, but I am absolutely within the bounds of scripture to warn people about them.
Love protects. When I see the wolves dressed like sheep going after others the way they tried to lead me astray, how can I not speak up?
What did Paul have to say about false teachers? He wished eternal condemnation on them, twice (Galatians 1); he wished that they would emasculate themselves (Galatians 5); called them agitators (Galatians 5); calls them dogs and mutilators of the flesh and men who do evil (Philippians 3).
Paul was speaking of those who were preaching Jesus + Jewish law and tradition. He had repented of these things and received forgiveness due to his ignorance. Why then was he speaking so harshly about these people?
The men he was speaking about had received the gospel. Instead of standing firm in it as it was given to them, they were choosing to add to it for their own purposes. They were wolves in sheep’s clothing, trying to take people who had been set free in Jesus Christ back into a works based bondage. Paul called it as he saw it. It is something to think about.
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I would add to that; there is a vast difference between those who profess to be believers in Jesus and yet add to or subtract from His Words and lead people astray, and those people who are being unknowingly deceived by such men. In Paul’s letter, his harshest words are for the former; it is the latter whom he is warning away from such men (the Galatians).
Even Jezebel in the book of Revelation was given time by the LORD to repent of the falsehoods she was teaching to the children of God. BUT, she refused to repent. The LORD was casting her on a bed of suffering along with anyone who continued to follow in her teaching. Our prayer is always that people would turn away from falsehood and lies and just stick to the beauty and simplicity of the Word of God.
I also believe that sincere people are often unwittingly used by false teachers to lend legitimacy to their “ministries”. I remember being dumbfounded to learn that Corrie Ten Boom had appeared with Katherine Kuhlman. How do we process such things? I fully believe that Corrie was a born again sister in Christ. Katherine Kuhlman produced the seed that gave us Benny Hinn…that is self-explanatory.
I recently came across a book from a man I believe to be a dear brother in the LORD on the Elijah List of all places. Is this just his publisher looking for sales? Is he aware of all the falsehoods they teach? I don’t know. Again, I am dumbfounded. I do know that my own testimony has been used by unscrupulous people to lend legitimacy to their healing room, although it had NOTHING to do with them.
All I can do is look at the fruit. Teaching things that are in direct opposition to the Word of God is lying and rebellion. Calling it what it is, on the other hand, is Truth spoken in love.
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Sorry in advance for this lengthy post, but I had to test these teachings point by point via scripture to be obedient and state the facts as I understand them. I welcome any comments or correction from scripture as I continue seeking the truth and don’t want to deceive or be deceived. Here are the Bill Johnson videos & my conclusions and commentary after study…
“Yesterday’s anointing is like yesterday’s manna.” -Bill Johnson at Bethel Church 8/15/10
Does the bible make reference to different types of anointing in the New Testament? (i.e. The Breaker Anointing, Prosperity Anointing, Sword of the Lord Anointing, etc.) and does God’s anointing from the Holy Spirit “go bad” and become useless at some point – like manna?
“But you have AN anointing from the Holy One, and all of you know the truth. I am writing these things to you about those who are trying to lead you astray. As for you, THE anointing you received from him REMAINS in you, and you do not need anyone to teach you. But as his anointing teaches you about all things and as that anointing is real, not counterfeit – just as it has taught you, remain in him.” 1 John 2:20, 26-27
“Paul refers to his thorn in the flesh, which has been interpreted by many as ‘disease ALLOWED or brought on by God’ – THAT’S A DIFFERENT GOSPEL.” “I refuse to create a theology that allows for sickness.” -Bill Johnson at Bethel Church 8/15/10
Hmmm, did the Apostles feel the same way??? Who is teaching/modeling a “different gospel” here…
“Stop drinking only water, and use a little wine because of your stomach and your FREQUENT ILLNESSES.” 1 Tim. 5:23
“Erastus stayed in Corinth, and I left Trophimus SICK in Miletus.” 2 Tim. 4:20
“For he longs for all of you and is distressed because you heard he was ill. Indeed he was ill, and almost died. But GOD had mercy on him, and not only on him but also on me, to spare me sorrow upon sorrow.” Phil. 4:26-27
“As you know, it was because of an illness that I first preached the gospel to you. Even though my illness was a trial to you, you did not treat me with contempt or scorn. Gal. 4:13-14
“Be joyful in hope, patient in affliction, faithful in prayer.” Rom. 12:12
“I KNOW your afflictions and your poverty – yet you are rich!” Rev 2:9
“Just as man is destined to DIE once, and after that to face judgment,” Heb. 9:27
“Not only so, but we ourselves, who have the firstfruits of the Spirit, groan inwardly as we WAIT eagerly for our adoption as sons, the REDEMPTION OF OUR BODIES. For in this hope we were saved. But hope that is seen is no hope at all. WHO HOPES FOR WHAT HE ALREADY HAS? But if we hope for WHAT WE DO NOT YET HAVE, WE WAIT FOR IT PATIENTLY.” Rom. 8:23-25
“I will show you, it’s in the bible. Jesus was born again. He had to be, he became sin. Hebrews 1 says this, for to which of the angels did he ever say, ‘You are My Son, today I have begotten You.’ In Acts 13 it explains that. ‘God has fulfilled this for us their children,’ and then he said that He has raised up Jesus, as it is also written in the second Psalm, ‘You are My Son; today I have begotten you.’ And that He raised him from the dead no more to return to corruption. He was born through Mary the first time and through resurrection the second time. He was born again.” -Bill Johnson at Bethel Church 8/15/10
• “I will show you, IT’S IN THE BIBLE. JESUS WAS BORN AGAIN. He HAD to be,” -Bill Johnson at Bethel Church 8/15/10
NOT ONCE does scripture teach that Jesus died in his spirit or that “he HAD to be” born again. IT IS NOT “in the bible.” This teaching may actually negate the resurrection which occurred when God freed Jesus because death couldn’t keep him. I believe that proves he DID NOT have to be born again… because he had NO SIN, the grave couldn’t hold him.
“But God raised him from the dead, freeing him from the agony of death, because IT WAS IMPOSSIBLE FOR DEATH TO KEEP ITS HOLD ON HIM. David said about HIM: ‘I saw the Lord ALWAYS before me. Because He IS at my right hand, I will not be shaken. Therefore my heart is glad and my tongue rejoices; my body also will live in hope, because you will not abandon me to the grave, nor will you let your Holy One see decay. You have made known to me the paths of life; you will fill me with joy in your presence.’” “Seeing what was ahead, he spoke of the resurrection of the Christ, that he was not abandoned to the grave, nor did his body see DECAY. God has raised this Jesus to life, and we are all witnesses of the fact.” Acts 2:24-33
Also, the bible refers to the death of those who are born again as “falling asleep,” since they’ve already died to the law of sin and death through Christ and will be resurrected like Him. When they’re resurrected, they’ve ALREADY been born again, so the resurrection is BECAUSE their sins have been forgiven and it’s not that they’re being born again – AGAIN. The bible teaches that Jesus was the first one to be resurrected – NOT BORN AGAIN – in the same way.
“But Christ has indeed been raised from the dead, the firstfruits of those who who have fallen asleep. For since death came through one man, the resurrection of the dead comes also through a man.” 1 Cor. 15:20
• “he BECAME sin.” -Bill Johnson at Bethel Church 8/15/10
“God made him who had no sin to be sin for us, so that in Him we might become the righteousness of God.” 2 Cor. 5:21
This means that God made Jesus an ATONEMENT for sin, not ACTUAL sin. It does NOT mean that Jesus became sin, sinful or that he had to die “spiritually” and be born again like we do! (I believe that particular doctrine denies the sovereign, sinless Lord who bought us.) He was our sin OFFERING, not sin. He died physically NOT spiritually and he suffered in his FLESH. To me, this is similar to when animals (sinless) were sacrificed for sins – the sins of the people were placed on them and they were physically slain, but had no spiritual death that was spoken of. There are many other verses that help explain:
“For what the law was powerless to do in that it was weakened by the sinful nature, God did by sending his own Son in the LIKENESS of sinful man to be a sin OFFERING.”
“For this reason he had to be made like his brother in every way, in order that he might become a merciful and faithful high priest in service to God, and that he might make ATONEMENT for the sins of the people.” Heb. 2:17
“Such a high priest meets our need – one who is holy, blameless, pure, set apart from sinners, exalted above the heavens. UNLIKE the other high priests, he does not need to offer sacrifices day after day, FIRST FOR HIS OWN SINS, and then for the sins of the people. He sacrificed for THEIR sins once for all when he OFFERED himself. For the law appoints as high priests men who are weak; the oath which came after the law, appointed the Son, who has been made PERFECT FOREVER.” Heb. 7:26-28
“But now he has appeared once for all at the end of the ages TO DO AWAY WITH SIN BY THE SACRIFICE OF HIMSELF. Just as man is destined to die once, and after that to face judgment, so Christ was sacrificed once to TAKE AWAY THE SINS of MANY people;” Heb. 9:26-28
“ But now he has reconciled you BY CHRIST’S PHYSICAL BODY through death to present you holy in his sight,” “He forgave us all OUR sins, having canceled the WRITTEN CODE, with its regulations, that was against us and that stood opposed to us; he took it away, nailing IT to the cross.” Col. 1:22, 2:13-14
“He himself BORE OUR sins IN HIS BODY on the tree, so that we might die to sins and live for righteousness; by his WOUNDS you have been healed.” “For Christ died FOR sins once for all, the RIGHTEOUS for the unrighteous, to bring you to God. He was put to death IN THE BODY but made alive BY the Spirit,” “Therefore, since Christ suffered IN HIS BODY, arm yourselves with the same attitude,” 1 Pet. 2:24, 3:18, 4:1
“He is the ATONING SACRIFICE for our sins,” “But you know that he appeared so that he might TAKE AWAY our sins. AND IN HIM IS NO SIN.” “This is love: not that we loved God, but that he loved us and sent his Son as an ATONING SACRIFICE for our sins.” 1 John 2:2, 3:5, 4:10
“Jesus called out with a loud voice, ‘FATHER, into YOUR hands I commit my SPIRIT.’ When he had said this, he breathed his last.” Luke 23:46
• “today I have BEGOTTEN You.” -Bill Johnson at Bethel Church 8/15/10
“You are my Son; today I have begotten you.” Acts: 13:33 from Psalm 2:7
This is also written: “You are my Son; today I have delivered you.” The term “begotten” can also be translated: to bring forth, to bring up, be delivered, time of delivery; which would fit the fact that God just brought him back from the dead – NOT that he was “born again” spiritually.
• “no MORE to return to corruption.” -Bill Johnson at Bethel Church 8/15/10
As stated by Johnson, it seems to indicate that Jesus had experienced corruption (sin) and would return to corruption no more. The word “corruption” in Acts 13:34 actually means “decay,” as in the grave- rotting. It’s translated as “decay” in NIV. Jesus was never corrupted. Verse 35 also goes on to say, “You will not let your Holy One see DECAY.” Same word.
• HE WAS BORN AGAIN.” -Bill Johnson at Bethel Church 8/15/10
This is NOT stated in scripture ANYWHERE. The bible always says He was raised from the dead or He was resurrected. NEVER that He was born again. I think that is significant and if the opposite were true, don’t you think the NT writers would have stated it flat-out somewhere, at least once?
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4plumb, Awesome sword swinging!
Another scripture that speaks directly against Bill Johnson’s interpretation of Jesus “becoming sin” is John 14:30-31.
“I will not speak with you much longer, for the prince of this world is coming. HE HAS NO HOLD ON ME, but the world must learn that I love the Father and that I do exactly what my Father has commanded me.” (NIV)
“Hereafter I will not talk much with you: for the prince of this world cometh, and HATH NOTHING IN ME. But that the world may know that I love the Father, and as the Father gave me commandment, even so I do.” (KJV)
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I don’t understand how the Bible scholars have determined that the “thorn in the flesh” was sickness. Especially the specific disease having to do with his eyes.
The “thorn in the side, spoken of in other places in the Bible always refers to people.
When Paul would teach, and the spirit would begin to move on those who heard him, the enemy would stir up people in the synagogues and cause problems. To the point once until Paul was drug out of town and stoned until he was assumed, and may have actually dead.
Receive what Jesus purchased for you
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I believe Paul associated his statement with a messenger of Satan… 🙂
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