on not losing my mind

Like many of you I have been watching the things going on in the Middle East and here in America. We are certainly seeing events that we have not seen in the past, or at least what we are witnessing is in greater proportion than before. It reminds me of the coming of Christ, as we are seeing so many countries affected and in need of peace. Who will be their peacemaker?

It makes me think of the minds of people with a need to assemble, to rise up to speak against the evil brought against them, the unfairness of those who were set in place to protect them and to see to their own good. After all, isn’t that the makings of a true leader? To protect and lead those who put them in office? Isn’t that what we have been taught to do here in America, to speak against all that is wrong? To speak our minds, to vote?

This isn’t what we are seeing these days. We expect the evil from third world countries, those who are under the harsh rule of the dictator. We hate their treatment but we are certainly aware of it. We do not expect it from our leaders here in America. But, sadly this is exactly what is taking place as Obama’s heavy hand waves away so many rights of the people. Rights that have been enacted by law long before he was ever born, long before those who stood up for what was right ever expected to see a dictator rise from the loins of American soil. But, it is happening before our very eyes and we have been rendered powerless to stop the tirade against freedom. Ok. Breathe.

A few days ago I began to pull together some articles as I again see an uprising in the Evangelical realm. Hehe. If we dare to continue to call it “evangelical”. I like Apprising’s word – evanjellyfish much better. (Thanks Ken!) Why? Because so many who we once adhered to as great teachers of the word of God have lost their backbone to stand for the truth. Instead they gather in groups which they refer to as conferences, doing the good ol buddy routine, endorsing the plans of this one, the success of that one.

They bring in heretical doctrine, an oxymoron in its own terms. One claims, “this is the way, follow me”. They trade literally in the name of Jesus. They forget the church was born and still exists through the power of the Holy Spirit and not through do it my way programs and how to books. But they continue to write them. They need to teach us a method instead of teaching how to be Spirit-led which is what we are supposed to be. They bring in gurus from other religions under the guise of health and deeper spirituality. They teach meditation. They teach yoga. They teach breath prayers. They teach unity. They teach another jesus. Do not be fooled to think otherwise.

We have the technology. We have the documentation.

How many of us were offended at Obama’s remark that America is no longer a Christian nation? It is the one thing I agreed with him on. It is not. America has gone “New Age”.

Right there I am reminded of the return of the Lord when He questioned if He will find faith here. What have we as a Christian nation allowed ourselves to become?

Not only did I feel angry at these things taking place, but I felt ignored. Who is listening to this silly – once a false prophet and was wrong then squat of a middle-aged woman. A woman. It was the woman who held the apple after all. It is the woman who is weaker. The woman who must not be permitted to speak.

It was then I found myself in a silent scream and not for the first time  – – “IF I BE LIKENED TO EVE, WHERE IS ADAM WHO WAS GIVEN THE WORD??”

I am confessing I began to think “why bother” and from there I began to wonder if truly I was losing my mind, not for the first time either. Others don’t seem to concerned about this uprising of evanjellyfish. Maybe everything is ok and I only need to go get a job and trust the people who were put over me to do the right thing. After all we need to unite, right? In our numbers we are stronger. Clothe the naked, feed the poor, see to the needs of those less fortunate.

Hmmm…. and I Hmmm-ed for a few days. I fumed as I Hmmm-ed and slowly simmered in my silent anger.

That was when I stumbled on Ingrid’s blog. I didn’t even know she had a blog! There I saw some of the same articles posted as I had put into my “read it later” file for safe keeping. I realized I was not the only one, and in that one precious thought I realized I was not in the process of losing my mind. Thank God for Ingrid. And thank Him for the others who research and write who have a deeper understanding of things that I know so little of. Because of them I have learned to listen to that bugginess going off in my head – that thing that says this is not right, but won’t let me rest until I find why.

No, I am not crazy. Nor am I finished. Keep reading.

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60 thoughts on “on not losing my mind

  1. Nope, you are not crazy. Nor are you alone in your anger at the extreme wickedness and deceit coming from both the politcal arena and the church. Frankly, I have had it. I am tired of being a voice for anything true or good. The aloneness of being such a one, is more than I can take. My silent scream has wimpered out. God knows my heart and I try to repent for my apathy. But I can’t. I too was wondering about the scripture whre Jesus asks will He even find faith on the earth when He returns. Sadly, I wonder if I even have any for anything anymore. The blackness of sin and evil in the world has made what little love I have had, wax cold. And I feel nothing about it. I am just biding my time now in hopes that life here on earth will not be as long as the past 55 years. If God takes me, fine. If not, well….I don’t know. All I know is I am sick and tired now of all I see going on. And there is not one thing I can do about any of it. Maybe I have lost my mind. If so, I can’t say I even care at this point.

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  2. I understand what both of you are saying. Sometimes it seems that everything is just too much–all of it that is going on out there.

    But I also know that there is a reward if we don’t give up. So Redeemed, take heart. HE is still faithful even if the whole world around us is falling apart. Don’t give up please. That would be a victory for the enemy and a loss for you. And He is also faithful to restore us when we cry out for His mercy. Truly there is hope in Him!!

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    • We can’t remain too focused on the negative. We must look to the Lord, knowing the things that happen must be for a time. Then, the end comes and what a party we will have then. I too need to be reminded of the calling, putting aside my emotions – the fear – and the desperation that wants to come on me. To be controlled by them is sinful and I find myself again in need of repentance. We look to the Lord in all things.

      Good advice cherylu, truly in love.

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  3. Read Jeremiah and Ezekiel. Both were lone voices crying out against false prophets and deceived people. Plus, saturating yourself in the word will build you up and give you strength.

    Stand strong in the Lord and in the power of His might!!

    Psa 27:5-6
    (5) For in the time of trouble he shall hide me in his pavilion: in the secret of his tabernacle shall he hide me; he shall set me up upon a rock.
    (6) And now shall mine head be lifted up above mine enemies round about me: therefore will I offer in his tabernacle sacrifices of joy; I will sing, yea, I will sing praises unto the LORD.

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  4. I am pretty sure I offended a woman in my church by speaking out against Rick Warren. Later, I found out she had gone through his 40 day program somewhere and found nothing wrong with it.

    Sometimes just planting the/a seed is enough. I was once deceived but slowly God brought me to the truth. Someone once said to me, “Are you sure that was from God?” That is all it took. I wanted to know. Maybe that is the difference. I was willing to admit that I was wrong and have been deceived.

    Once undeceived….a burden comes regarding the church.

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  5. Well I’ve had my fill….. and it came a little over a week ago. Crashed and burned and certainly felt the need for a padded room. Decided to walk away from all of it. Deleted some posts, was never going to mention this crap again and live the rest of my life in peace. RIGHT!!!????
    I can so relate to the Hmmmmming, fuming, and ESPECIALLY “that bugginess going off in my head”….your article was the last thing I wanted to read, but it was the one thing that I needed to read; as a matter of fact when the title came up on my email I truly did have a silent scream inside and I wanted to slap you!!! Sorry.
    I avoided reading it for a few days, finally gave in, read it, and fumed some more. I thank you and God for being so faithful, that even when I’ve snapped and can’t take anymore He comforts and encourages me with people who really don’t want to be here either; but for reasons I will probably never understand just can’t let it go or lay it down. Why is that???
    I can talk to some people and they are so very grateful for all that God has brought them out of. Yet they don’t have any desire or drive to look into it any further and are very content to live their lives in peace or so it seems…..how does that happen????? and why can’t I do that??? Why is it that I can’t stop looking into it….that I want to shake people and say wake up! Run! Get out…and they don’t listen anyway!!!!! Yes I’m still having a bit of a fit, maybe it was too soon to respond to your article’ but if I don’t now I won’t…and I do want you to know how much I do appreciate how God has used you.
    God bless

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    • Pat, I almost started the article –

      “Someone slap me now”!

      I get to the place where I’ve had enough, then I seem to mellow out, and almost immediately there is something else that comes along blowing my day. It simply goes on gaining momentum and size like an out of control evil snowball.

      Thank you for your encouragement. 🙂

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  6. Hey to both of you Pat and M’kayla.I’ve been reading things online and researching for 4 years now. Almost daily.I don’t do it to write a blog but just for my knowledge. Most that I
    share with aren’t interested anyway. I have had days when I have deleted it all in my favorites, and then I just get them all back again. I want to get on with my life, but having an awful hard time of it. Probably some unforgiveness yet. Hope to move on and start living again. I have also dealt with my own cancer these past 4 years, the guilt of not being healed, the death of 2 friends last year from cancer, my brothers death in Oct and now my dad is dying of cancer. I am weary. i need to trust in Him again. I did read a book by Joni Erikson titled A Place Of Healing and it is one of the best I’ve read. Very encouraging. Thanks for listening. I’m done.

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    • Hi Sally.
      I know life can be so harsh and it is easy to wonder what the purpose is. I keep reminding myself that Our Father God does have a plan and tho I am not told the why’s I continue to trust in His ways because as He is my Father He knows better than I do. One day I am sure it will all make sense. Some people may not listen to the truth we tell them, but that is their decision and they will one day have to give answer for the reason they chose not to listen.

      Still my heart goes out to you as I know you have also suffered tremendously. Don’t give up your hope. It is in these times we bear with each other and carry burdens. There is no guilt for you to cling to in your illness. Our bodies get sick, they wear out and break down, but spiritually, we thrive.

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  7. Sally,
    Thank you for sharing, especially needing to “trust Him again”, you’re not alone there that’s for sure. I fail so many times! Looking into deception becomes almost obsessive and I’m not so sure it’s not suppose to be. Mike (husband) and I have talked about this A LOT.
    So many times I have said I’m done, walked away – leaving it alone, only to be drawn right back. I have thought and said the exact same thing you did , to be able to “move on and start living again.” ; but I’m starting to think that this is a part of my moving on and my living again…..something that we don’t leave behind but take with us…..I don’t know, it doesn’t go away. Unfortunately as difficult as it is to look into these things, it’s still uncovering, seeing and hearing the truth and it seems that many of my “experiences” teaching and instructions in the “church” actually lacked truth. Deception was and is easily introduced and accepted and it’s frightening !
    Even though it’s raw and ugly when it’s exposed, it’s still truth and I’ve determined that I would much rather be here in my Spiritual walk with the Lord than anywhere else that I have been in the past because much of it was bogus, erroneous and in the end very empty. It wasn’t Truth. At least where I’m at now even though it seems to be a continual grind at times….it’s still truth. I guess truth is not always warm and fussy like I use to think it was!
    Also we will keep you and your entire family in much prayer. Please don’t feel guilty, as mkayla said ” Father God does have a plan and tho I am not told the why’s I continue to trust in His ways because as He is my Father He knows better than I do.” As weary and worn out as we all become at times He is always there and He has used you to remind me of that. Thank you. God bless and keep you

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  8. mKayla,
    I’m very thankful for your site and I have to say that what you have posted has confirmed to me that I am in a predicament for sure. I just joined the WoF recovery forum recently and touched on this with Damon, but I’d really like some direct feedback from you if possible.
    Just yesterday at the Pregnancy Cnt. where I am a volunteer counselor, we had our weekly “Bible” study. As usual, the director began her Kris Vallotten, River movement, love, love, love doctrine.
    I love what I do there and am able to reach many clients with the gospel. But more and more I feel convicted for having any fellowship at all with the faculty. I tried to talk to the director about the heresies in Kris Vallottens teachings but she starts using some weird form of demonic intimidation to get me to back off—such as I just have a “religious spirit” or something. Then she blatantly quotes Kris constantly at Bible study as an affront to me. I try to humbly interject Bible quotes to refute, but usually end up feeling I have failed and am even beginning to succumb to her pleas of love and —-unity.
    There is not true unity where I feel I’m in fellowship with works of darkness. I am not good at confrontation so I usually turn blood red out of a mixture of anger and humiliation. So far, I’ve passed it off as just hot flashes—-but I don’t know how much longer I can do this.
    Many different denominations are represented on our staff. The director makes sure we have a smorgasbord of spiritual diversity. Our Bible study also consists of mostly neutral, all inclusive topics, which she perverts to promote her agenda. She has just recently helped to open a “River” church in the area and as begun to direct our clients there for a dose of Charismania.
    I have however made some progress. I spent all of my tithe money last year to get the “Way of the Master” series and teaching materials instituted there for our clients. But the director refused to allow the staff to do a Way of the Master Bible study on how to witness the gospel. Instead she insists now on doing Bible studies on “Spiritual Warfare.” Indeed it is a war—-a silent war. I feel so alone there in my beliefs. I have just come out of the WoF but feel satan trying to reel me back in thru people pleasing and false peace with a wolf in sheeps clothing. Any suggestions? Thank You for your time.

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    • Hi godlee.

      I can see your concern and there are many issues at work here. I have to wonder if this director’s boss or the board would appreciate knowing how she is treating you. Volunteers are considered to be like gold to organizations such as this one and I can’t image the powers that be at this center would allow this to go on. In addition to the manipulation and abuse she is forcing her own beliefs on the rest of the team. How often we see a mixture of darkness and light.

      I don’t generally give advice on what to do. I don’t believe God wants us in situations where we are taught false doctrine for any reason as we are told to stay away from it. You are opening yourself up for more problems as you have said yourself you are starting to succumb to her pleas. Love without truth is not love and she is clearly manipulating and controlling you.

      You have other options for volunteer work, to share the gospel and to use that expensive training program. Please seek the Lord and I have a feeling you already know the answer.

      I do have to ask and you don’t have to say, but is this a “Christian based” resource center? I volunteered for one several years ago. That director was Emergent, altho I didn’t even know there was such a thing at the time. Many churches supported it financially. We are trading “good works” for the true faith. We lose!

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  9. I think there is another reason that we can’t just “let go” of this and walk away. It seems like the deception(s) are growing, changing, deepening, and invading more areas of the church all of the time. And it seems there are multiple threads of deception out there.

    So it seems to me that we have to be contstantly keeping up with what is going on, not only for our sakes and to keep from getting sucked into something else, but also for the sakes of those around us that maybe haven’t done the reading and research so they are able to see through this stuff.

    If that is really the case, I think it will be a never ending process. Unless of course the Lord makes it clear to any of us that we are to drop this at least for a time.

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    • I agree with you on that Cherylu. Thanks for speaking it out. 🙂

      Let’s be encouraged because we are told these things will happen, that many will come to deceive, many will lose the love, but because Jesus has told us beforehand, let’s not lose sight that these are signs of His coming and that these things must take place first. Instead, let’s rejoice because we have this work laid out before us and we share in the sufferings of Christ who also was rejected and in the most cruelest of ways.

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  10. cherylu and mkayla,
    Sigh……..agreed!!!!… although it’s difficult trying to somehow incorporate this into my life Spiritually and every other way too, I really don’t see how you can walk away. I guess it’s not any more difficult than being deceived and trying to make that work!!!! Been there done that!! I was just hoping that someone would comment and convince me otherwise, yes, I was looking for an easy button. Your both right……”to keep from getting sucked into something else”….and “Jesus has told us beforehand, …let’s rejoice because we have this work laid out before us and we share in the sufferings of Christ”……
    Thanks to you both, God bless

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  11. Hi godlee,

    I have been in a similar situation as you in the past. I worked for some years at our local food pantry which was a faith based operation.

    At one point I was asked to be on the board of directors. It was after I started going to these meetings that I decided I couldn’t continue to even work there anymore. We had various Christian denominations represented, a gal from a church that I knew was quite into new age/ocult practices at that time (if the gal was herself or not, I don’t know), and a Mormon gal. The breaking point for me was that every meeting was opened by holding hands and praying. I started to seriously wonder who it was I was joining in praying to in that group and I had to get out.

    Obviously my situation was not identical to yours at all. But maybe it helps to know that such things are not uncommon. Mixtures–spiritual diversity of one type or another–just seem to be taken for granted anymore.

    The place you find yourself is a hard place to be. For what it is worth coming from someone you don’t know at all, I would echo M’Kayla’s advice that you pray for direction in this area. And I’ll bet you won’t find yourself staying there long as it sounds like you really can’t have any input there but are being manipulated into a mold that you do not believe to be truth.

    Trying to be in a siutation like that where you are constantly going against the flow of leadership without any visible hope of influencing things for the better is a very exhausting place to be.

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    • Mixtures–spiritual diversity of one type or another–just seem to be taken for granted anymore.
      These are the norm – interfaith, all people of varying faiths working side by side to achieve a common goal to the world is a very good thing.

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  12. M’Kayla,

    “These are the norm – interfaith, all people of varying faiths working side by side to achieve a common goal to the world is a very good thing.”

    Yeah, well it wouldn’t be so sad if it was considered a good thing only to the world, would it? But it seems to be becoming more and more accepted in the church too. (Look at Rick Warren’t PEACE plan for instance.)

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  13. I think what gets us by surprise is that we would expect a feeling of isolation or ostracizing if we were a part of a secular organization. We would expect a certain level of persecution or people just not “getting where we are coming from,” but when we are a part of a ‘Christian’ organization and then find ourselves alone in holding to scripture it can be very disorienting. We find out the ‘christians’ are more New Age than Bible believing.

    I have had to take each case individually and ask the Lord for perspective to know if it was time to leave such situations, or are there people I can speak the truth to?

    I feel for ya, godlee.

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  14. Mkayla and others,
    Thank you for all the input. You’re right—-I think I do already know the answer I just can’t bear the thought of losing my clients—-some whom are atheists who are coming around.
    To answer your questions——This is supposed to be a “Christian” non-profit organization. We are supported by most of our local churches. However, the director recently took the whole staff(except me)to a conference in Alabama to get funding from a National Preg. resource cnt/church involved in something called “Venture Ministries” that also believe in Charismatic gifts. I don’t have a good feeling about it.
    Anyway we do not welcome Mormons, Jehovah Witnesses, or outright New Age on the staff. We are mostly protestant and Catholic. The director refers to herself as Cathlocostal. Our statement of faith is completely Biblical, which makes this so confusing.
    All of us on staff “agree to disagree” on most doctrines but be in unity on the doctrine of grace in Jesus Christ.
    Another thing that complicates things is the New Age terminology that the director mixes with Biblical terminology. She talks so much and so fast, I can only jot a couple of sentences down to try to get it on paper to really analyze it. She’s hard to pin down and can twist everything upside down, in and out and all around in such a subtle way. I’m beginning to understand what Jesus meant when He said, “I send you out as sheep among wolves—Therefore be wise as a serpent, innocent as a dove.”

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    • I’m beginning to understand what Jesus meant when He said, “I send you out as sheep among wolves—Therefore be wise as a serpent, innocent as a dove.”

      Yes, and also why we are warned not to mix with the world, with other teachings, etc. I will pray for you. 🙂

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  15. I’m glad I took the time to read all of the above comments. On one hand, it makes me feel good that I am not totally alone in all I think or feel regarding trying to “fellowship” with the leaven. On the other hand, makes me sad that so many people feel the same way I do. Recently, I was invited to a birthday party. There was a time of prayer for the birthday girl. “Good” I thought to myself, “this will be very nice. Can’t wait to pray for my friend along with the others.” All was well until someone spoke up and prayed “And Lord we thank you for the angel encounters (so-n-so) has had.” My heart sank. This was a result of her reading Choo Thomas’s book. She does not know I know. After coming home I told my husband how does one fellowship with leaven???? No where in the word of God am I told to spit out bones and chew the meat, as is said among Christians today regarding false teachings. There is no where and I mean no where in this city where one can get any kind of fellowshipo that has not been tainted with the likes of false teachers. It makes for great lonliness — unbelievable lonliness — hope deferred makes the heart sick. I suppose the only thing at this point that gives me any consolation is knowing that others are going through the same thing. Not that I would wish this on any person — I would not. It is just that it is so very hard to even want to go on. I admire those who can. God bless those of you who can and even those who can not. May He be your source for all that is good.

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    • Hi RH.
      Yes, there are many of us in the same boat. Too bad it isn’t literal, then we could all be together. 🙂 Every time I think its gonna be ok I find more stuff right where I am at and the need to separate. It’s crazy and I am very tired.

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  16. Sister, I get very tired too. Just yesterday my husband came in from a church he had visited with a friend. He told me about a visiting speaker they had. Kevin Dedmon. I did a search and lo and behold I find out he is affilated with Bethel! I tell you the truth, the churches everywhere are infected with this putrid dung. I’m tempted to go back to the church I was brought up in until the age of 9. The Church of Christ. At least they adhere to the Word of God and I would not have to worry about any blatant witchcraft going on during a service.

    Thanks to you, I know about Bethel and was able to tell hubby what you went through. Thank you and may you never give up.

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    • Thanks my friend. 🙂 And more importantly thank the Lord the info was helpful and let’s also thank Him for the revelation of truth from the Holy Spirit granted to your husband.

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  17. Dear Redeemedhippie,
    I’ve often had the same thoughts of returning to the Church of Christ that I was in for 35 years. You are definitely not alone and it’s good to know that I’m not either.
    I’ve been reading some of Charles Spurgeon’s quotes from the late 1800’s—that sometimes we have to suffer outside the camp and share in the reproaches of Christ. He too went thru this kind of thing. He grew up Arminian (like the Church of Christ)—believing in baptismal regeneration, etc. Then he ended up “Calvinistic” (doctrine of grace alone, faith alone in Jesus alone). However, he ended up leaving the Baptist Union due to heretical doctrines seeping in and worldliness, etc.
    It’s amazing how God has led me to exactly what I’m needing right now.
    I’ve decided for sure that I too am going to have to suffer outside the camp, rather than continue to violate my God-given conscience. However, I have to make sure I do this God’s way. I’m learning a lot from all this. We are blessed to suffer the reproach of Christ—-rejoice!!

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    • godlee, thank you for the word of encouragement. Your words bare witness to me in suffering in the right way. I am afraid I am not a good “sufferer.” I am not one who whines, but I sure can gripe up a storm. May God give us all the grace to suffer in the right way. Be blessed.

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  18. mKayla,
    Here’s another quote I read yesterday that has helped me and may help others— from C.H.Spurgeon the year of 1888 From the publication “Sword and Trowel”.
    ” Ah, my dear brethren! there are many that are deceived by this method of reasoning. They remain where their conscience tells them they ought not to be, because, they say, they are more useful than they would be if they went “without the camp”. This is doing evil that good may come, and can never be tolerated by an enlightened conscience. If an act of sin would increase my usefulness tenfold, I have no right to do it; all my apparent usefulness, I am yet to do it. It is yours and mine to do the right though the heavens fall, and follow the command of Christ whatever the consequences may be.”
    Wow!

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  19. mkayla, great article, as a man I feel the same frustration and often feel I’m in a silent scream. I am no Adam with the Word of God but I am sure that true Christianity is now a minority in America. Most of that which calls itself christian is in name only, not in substance. I believe this is the reason many won’t listen to reason. They are lost, and what we call leadership are so focused on their agenda, power, etc they won’t even glance our way or give an ear to the Word of God. Love your term evanjellyfish, how true it is! I have watched for decades now the cowardice of our leadership. Stay strong and never give up mkayla, I know the temptation to just quit, I feel it all the time but their are a “few” who are hearing and coming out of it all and that makes it all worth it!

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  20. mkayla,
    Just thought I would touch base with you on what is going on at the Pregnancy Center. I’ve continued doing research into what the director is in to (Kris Vallotten and Bill Johnson)and it gets more disturbing everyday to hear it all flow out of her mouth—deceiving all of my colleagues and incoming clients. Not to mention that she is a mentor to many pastors in our area. I’ve discerned a Jezebel in sheeps clothing, with many eunuchs who are being taken captive.
    Just yesterday, I was called into the office to be interrogated and questioned for causing a client to feel judged—all because I suggested either abstinence or marriage because of what God’s word says about premarital sex. I’ve witnessed many of the other counselors being rude to clients and even refusing to counsel them if they are a few minutes late for their appointment. Yet, they were backed up by leadership.
    Anyway, the interrogation was demeaning and condescending with the comment that since I have such a gift for evangelism that I needed to take it to the streets. They made it clear that they are all about love and not causing offense. I made it clear that true love tells the truth and stands up for God’s word, that I’m not only thinking of the baby while it’s in the womb, but the kind of life it will have if the parents don’t hear the gospel and get saved.
    Many are becoming increasingly offended by my gospel zeal and love for God’s truth. The director knows that I know what she is into and is trying every way possible to turn others against me. I overhear her indoctrinating counselors into the river —Latter Rain—New Apostolic Reformation every time I’m there. They are all even considering going to the River church in town now. The church is into something called “soaking rooms” and SOZO. They also teach a class on Bill Johnson’s “The Power of a Transformed Mind.” It’s very disturbing and I’m being more marginalized everyday.
    I do want to thank you all for prayers and advice. I did quit the Bible study and am no longer sitting under the directors false teaching, and I only go to the Center to counsel once a week now, until God completely leads me out. In fact, I feel I will get complete peace soon about leaving completely. Just last night I was reminded of Jesus’ words in Matt. 10:23—“When they persecute you in this city, flee to another.” I’m thankful that Jesus gives permission to leave situations like mine when it gets that bad. Of course, the persecution has just begun, I can’t imagine how bad it may get the longer I stay. Please pray for me that I won’t be a coward and bail out before it’s time,and that I will also know when it is time to leave with no regrets. Thanks

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  21. mkayla,
    I forgot to mention—-things got worse at the Preg. Cnt. when I took a video tape of the “Wretched TV” show addressing the apostasy of Rob Bells “Loves Wins”. I showed it during the last Bible study I attended there. I slipped it in before the director showed up–she was late that day (thank God)!!! My colleagues seemed to agree totally, but acted nervous when the director showed up (right at the end of the tape). It’s as if it all went in one ear and out the other, as soon as the director started pouring on all of her hype and flattery. She immediately started talking her political agenda of how to usher in the “kingdom”—I reminded everyone that Jesus said His kingdom is not of this world. They all looked dumbfounded for a few seconds and then she reeled them back into her hype.
    That was my last Bible study there.
    I gave the video tape to the director and asked for her feedback. She just returned it to me the next week with no comment.
    I had a feeling she would do something to me the next time I came. I was right, but God had already prepared me ahead of time and gave me a way out of the interrogation. I just hope I’ve been brave enough. I don’t want to be a people pleaser—-I want to be a servant of Jesus Christ, but somehow I feel I’ve been too nice. Yet, I have to speak the truth in love and in a spirit of gentleness. I’m naturally a very quiet person, so this is hard for me. I hate confrontation, but my zeal for God has consumed me and I burn with “righteous indignation” because of the apostasy I see.

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    • Hi godlee!
      I was thinking about you just the other day. It sounds as though you are all under manipulation from this director, even a form of spiritual abuse.
      Be encouraged and strengthened by the word, knowing that others suffer for the sake of the gospel as you do:

      1 Peter 3:13-17

      13 And who is he who will harm you if you become followers of what is good? 14 But even if you should suffer for righteousness’ sake, you are blessed. “And do not be afraid of their threats, nor be troubled.” 15 But sanctify the Lord God in your hearts, and always be ready to give a defense to everyone who asks you a reason for the hope that is in you, with meekness and fear; 16 having a good conscience, that when they defame you as evildoers, those who revile your good conduct in Christ may be ashamed. 17 For it is better, if it is the will of God, to suffer for doing good than for doing evil.

      1 Peter 4:12-14

      12 Beloved, do not think it strange concerning the fiery trial which is to try you, as though some strange thing happened to you; 13 but rejoice to the extent that you partake of Christ’s sufferings, that when His glory is revealed, you may also be glad with exceeding joy. 14 If you are reproached for the name of Christ, blessed are you, for the Spirit of glory and of God rests upon you. On their part He is blasphemed, but on your part He is glorified.

      Thanks for letting me know. I am sorry that so many have become so easily led astray, and continue to hope and PRAY they will return to reading their bibles for themselves. You stand strong and don’t be so hard on yourself, allow the Spirit of God to work through you. You already know the truth.

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  22. I’m still counseling at the pregnancy cnt. one day a week but I am starting to feel down now that I don’t have as many clients. Not only that, but the one day I’m there, the director has recently thrown in another “River” volunteer to take half my clients. This lady is loud and rude to me. Just last week I was making copies of handouts about the reality of hell. She started mocking me and telling everyone to get one so they could tell everybody they are going to hell. I tried to explain that people had to know about hell so they could appreciate the Savior. She just scoffed at me and said she didn’t do it that way—that she just told people about Gods love,etc. I just smiled and walked away, but when she wasn’t looking, I taped one of my handouts on the wall about giving the full counsel of God. I seen her reading it later that day and she tried to suck up to me, but no apology.
    I confess I’ve been feeling so discouraged because these people can talk circles around me, but I’m learning that by providing reading material, I’m still getting Gods message across. Yet, I still have this feeling that I’m being more marginalized everyday for the sake of Jesus Christ. I feel lonely also since I left the WoF church last year. My husband and I have still not found another church.
    I am encouraged about one thing that happened yesterday at the pregnancy center—-I now have a client from my old church that has confided in me that she too has been spirtitually abused there. It’s sad, but perhaps God is showing me that I’ve been thru all this for a reason—-to help others come out of spirtual abuse.

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  23. mKayla, I know you said you don’t usually give advice—but what about Prov. 11:14–“Where there is no counsel, the people fall; but in the multitude of counselors there is safety.” Perhaps I just need to be comforted from others who know where I’m coming from. I’m so down today. This past tues. was so painful for me. I’m still hurting and just need to know I’m not alone. I know God is with me, but I’ve been praying for true Christian fellowship to help me thru this.
    You know some of the highlights of my situation at the Preg. Cnt.with the “River” director, and my struggle with wondering if I should just withdraw and lose my clients or try to stay and make a stand for Gods truth. Well, I just kept praying that God would confirm to me whether or not it’s worth it. I’ve always had a tendency to doubt my discernment because I’m not perfect, besides I always try to give the benefit of the doubt. But just 2 wks. ago there it was right in front of me at the Cnt. One of the counselors that the director has really taken under her wing had accidently left her SOZO ministry papers on a table in the front office. I picked them up and said “how did these get here—this is dangerous ground.” She came up from behind me, grabbed them out of my hand, laughing hysterically and nervously saying it wasn’t dangerous ground, stuffing the papers in her briefcase as fast as she could. I asked if she’d done any research on SOZO–she got really hateful, telling me she didn’t have to because she had seen God move and she wasn’t closed minded like some people. I had a feeling she would do something underhanded to me. She did. She went to management to slander me. I was interrogated (again) tues. But it gave me a platform to speak on the dangers of SOZO and how I’ve even been a victim of something similar. The manager quoted Joyce Meyer, Joel Osteen, Naomi Judd, and Oprah Winfrey as a defense to why we shouldn’t question others beliefs and just let God take care of it. I was told I was getting overboard and crazy, etc. I can’t even go into all that was said without crying. I’ve expressed my concern over the type of counseling entering in and how they want to marginalize the gospel. The manager said she’d look at the closingstages.net about it. I’m too hurt to even make a decision right now. Please pray for me and the clients who will be affected by this. I really need to be comforted right now, please get back with me. Thanks

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    • Hi.

      After having done all – stand Ephesians 6:13 🙂 And here you are, standing for Christ, warning, standing, warning, pointing the way to the truth, and still standing amidst their deaf ears and ridicule. I am amazed that they keep you considering the “disruption” you have been, and continue to be, to their otherwise smooth running operation. Clearly they follow after a god created by another, and not the one who is the Father of Christ, the one who created the way of salvation, the narrow path. Still, I question why they keep you – surely the see something there worth hanging on to… 🙂 tada.

      Recently someone wrote that America has turned pagan. This simple phrase helped me put it all into perspective, no longer expecting a Christian to truly be one. We see it in the churches, we see it in our leaders who claimed Christ, the proof of the great falling away has come. It is scary, yet we have been warned that it would.

      1 Thess 5:12-26 is instruction for Christian living which spoke loudly to me just a short while ago. Instead, I wanted to kick against it, telling God – no, you deal with THAT person! But I think God deals with us first, huh?

      So, to advise you, as you have asked for counsel—If you feel led to continue this work then do so, but approach it from a perspective that you work (volunteer your time) for unbelievers, for pagans, for those who have departed from the truth, expect nothing from them. Please know that I cringe as I write these words and let me express the need to pray for them, for the veil to come of their sorry spiritual eyes! Oh, it is grievous, yes. Don’t let satan tell you that you are the crazy one. You are not. And you are not alone.

      Praise God that He has given you a place to speak the truth. They cannot say (cringing again) they were not warned later on. We never know who will be helped, but the Lord is mighty to save.

      11 Therefore comfort each other and edify one another, just as you also are doing.
      12 And we urge you, brethren, to recognize those who labor among you, and are over you in the Lord and admonish you,
      13 and to esteem them very highly in love for their work’s sake. Be at peace among yourselves.
      14 Now we exhort you, brethren, warn those who are unruly, comfort the fainthearted, uphold the weak, be patient with all.
      15 See that no one renders evil for evil to anyone, but always pursue what is good both for yourselves and for all.
      16 Rejoice always,
      17 pray without ceasing,
      18 in everything give thanks; for this is the will of God in Christ Jesus for you.
      19 Do not quench the Spirit.
      20 Do not despise prophecies.
      21 Test all things; hold fast what is good.
      22 Abstain from every form of evil.
      23 Now may the God of peace Himself sanctify you completely; and may your whole spirit, soul, and body be preserved blameless at the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ.
      24 He who calls you is faithful, who also will do it.
      25 Brethren, pray for us.
      26 Greet all the brethren with a holy kiss.

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  24. Lee Anne,
    I was struck by your determination to stay even though you don’t know if that is the right thing to do. That is the one thing that you have to figure out here. I was in a very personal situation several years ago with a family member we had a falling out and they wanted to continue to enter into a relationship but not discuss the issue, which meant that nothing ever got settled….very unhealthy to say the least; but I thought that God wanted me to stay, with the hopes that it would all change. Well after a few months it did change, I became almost physically sick every time the family member would call or want to come over and it would last for 2 or 3 days after. Finally in tears I cried out to God that I just couldn’t do this anymore, and He softly answered back that He never asked me to. Wow what a relief!!!! Not that there still wasn’t extremely difficult decisions and conversations that took place afterwards ; but what peace I had.
    I’m certainly not saying that God doesn’t want you to stay and “take a stand” but I’m just saying sometimes we get so convinced of what we think God wants that we suffer more than necessary at the hands of people He is trying to deliver us from. It’s kind of like trying to serve God and do this and do that and teach this class and take that class, until your totally exhausted and burnt out….God never told us to, we just get caught up in things at times that we think are “right”.
    Take the time really look for the peace. Your clients will certainly be taken care of by God if He is indeed telling you to walk away and BTW that’s also considered “standing”. Even if God isn’t telling you to walk away and you do, He is still going to take care of your clients. We will certainly keep you and your clients and family in much prayer. Along with those who are so misguided and deceived.
    You said something very telling in your comment…”I’ve always had a tendency to doubt my discernment, because I’m not perfect……I always try to give the benefit of the doubt. But just 2wks ago THERE IT WAS RIGHT IN FRONT OF ME.” One question. How many times can you look back and regret NOT listening to your discernment, because you’re not perfect? I’ll bet it’s safe to say a more often than not ugh? None of us are perfect, I’m a long waaaayyy from it, will be till I’m dead. Follow the peace, even if it makes no sense to you, same way with the discernment. It will always line up with the Word of God, not our logic, reasoning or good intentions. God bless you and I pray that this helps.
    Pat
    Just a last thought if God is taking you out, be wise and know that they will not let you leave well and will more than likely slander you even more. I know that this may not seem to be encouraging but I’ve been there done that and don’t want you to be caught unaware. Hugs to you and lots of prayers.

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    • Pat my friend you made some very good points here. I liked that you pointed out that sometimes to leave is to stand. And haven’t we done this very thing? What was it said to me recently…???…shake the dust off my feet (they, being so unwilling to hear the truth, much less repent!).

      Blessings.

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  25. Thank you both for your feedback, I will take all into consideration as I seek God for strength to endure this affliction. I’m convinced these “religious” leaders are not of God and I too have already begun to feel physically sick just thinking about their looks and their words which seem to have some kind of hypnotic suggestion behind them. I realize the interrogations are to distract from the real issues I’m trying to bring into the light and expose. They hate coming to the light—just as God’s word says. I have a love for these people that hurts. However, I can see me shaking the dust off my feet very soon as a testimony against them. I know I have to leave before God’s judgement falls upon them for all this.
    At this point, I’m already not in fellowship with them any longer, I’m seen as a traitor, but zeal for God has consumed me. I know God hasn’t lifted the delusion from my eyes for nothing. I can see now how to lead others out, but my flesh wants to be a coward. I desperately want peace and try to pursue it despite their elusive war tactics. There’s just a fine line between me seeking peace and seeking their approval. You see I’ve always been a people pleaser. No wonder God is allowing my flesh to be crucified in this manner. It’s painful to be hated by all, but Jesus said it would be this way. Perhaps one reason I stay is so I will completely die to peoples approval. “If I still pleased men, I would not be a servant of the Lord.”
    Another reason may be that I can gather information that will help to dismantle the destructive “River” flowing thru my town, or at least dam it up a little.
    I am so grateful for true Christian feedback. I have been so heartbroken and sick to my stomach since last tues.—lost sleep just thinking about it all. I’ve gone back to reading the Puritans for comfort—-like an escape from the present craziness in the Christian arena. My favorite is John Bunyans “Intercession of Christ.” It comforts me to know Jesus is interceeding for us as we interceed for each other.
    I pray for you all and this wonderful work you are doing. I praise God for it.

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  26. Hello,It’s me just touching base again. I’ve been very busy with my middle sons high school graduation,etc. but have still made time to continue studying God’s word and praying for guidance one day at a time. I’ve had to make a major decision—-to bring all the heresy at the Preg. Cnt. to a crisis. This is not easy for me, but God has opened the door for me to do this (I’ll give more details later). I’m thankful to God that I’ve survived the last few weeks, considering the harassment by the new counselor and the subtle slander from the director to turn others against me. By watching her sly tactics, I’ve begun to realize more and more what Jesus meant by “Be wise as a serpent, innocent as a dove”—-I’ve always wondered why He would want to advice us to be “as a serpent”—-perhaps it was His way of saying we have to be slick—-because they are slick. Already I’ve tested something along those lines. Since they are all about the “love,” I decided to test that out in a particular scenario. The rude, “River” counselor was literally pushing me around in the office when she seen that I had my tracts laid out on the table, trying to push them (and me) out in the floor, saying I was in her way. I taped another small handout on the wall above my desk about “Aiming for repentance, not a “decision.” She asked if I thought I was better than her, I reminded her that I’m no better than anyone. At that moment, I realized she was getting angry due to conviction, so I reached over to her and told her I loved her. I said I read these for myself too, because I need to be reminded of these things when I’m dealing with clients. I said, it’s all about the love. She completely backed off and even began to be nice to me. According to Prov.? “A soft answer turns away wrath”—-so there is a way to speak the truth in love. The love however, has to stem from the love of God first I see. However, I feel I have to prepare to be hated, even while loving others, just as Paul said when he loved much, he was hated that much more.
    By the end of the day she began to go back to her old ways, probably realizing something went over her head. She said she had two Catholic friends who were Christians and was trying to convince me. I’ve really struggled with this. I know Gods elect can be in any church, but to be considered already a Christian—-I don’t think so because God would lead them out of that mess—–right? Can you explain this to me—how can someone be a Christian and still be hailing Mother Mary, and other idols?

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    • I just wonder how we can be Christians and follow the ways of other religions. If it isn’t taught in the bible then it is taught by man or demon. Scripture is clear. I think we have been programmed for a very long time to accept others, including Catholics as true Christians. While it is true only God knows the heart and He is the ultimate judge it is not an excuse for believers to beg ignorance. Many bible believing Christians are being seduced by the ways of Roman Catholicism thru their methods of lectio divina and contemplative prayer and the mystics, having no basis in Christianity.

      Glad to know you have made your stand and I very much enjoyed reading your update. Thanks for letting us know! 🙂

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  27. Thank you for your feedback. Could it be that Gods elect can be in any religion, but once they are called—- their salvation secured—that the Holy Spirit then begins to lead them out of that heresy? I find it hard not to at least try to show them how impossible it is to serve God and idols. I can’t bring myself to give someone the right hand of fellowship in those religions. I know we are to have no fellowship with works of darkness, but to expose them. I think many today just want to make people feel good in their heresy—-to not offend—-to not have them doubt their salvation. Thats not biblical.
    Anyway, yesterday I didn’t have to bring anything to a crisis—God did it! The office manager actually looked into the heresies of Bethel church and the SOZO and took the information to her pastor. He told her they were definitely heretical and that if anyone at the center was delivering this kind of heresy to the clients, he would have to pull out as a financial supporter. She cringed, but said she realized she must confront the director and be more alert from now on. Looks like this is just the beginning, but God is actually allowing me to see Him move and open eyes——I praise my Redeemer!!!!!!! Words can’t express His faithfulness in answering His peoples prayers when they are afflicted and persecuted for His Name sake. I want to share my joy with you all for the Truth prevailing over the false and for ministries like this that make my life easier. I’m exhausted and almost sick—-but the joy of the Lord is my strength. Again, thank you for this outlet to share my afflictions in the Lord with my sisters and brothers in Christ. I love you.

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    • HA! Pretty wild, huh? Love that news! Maybe they will move towards ridding the center of those who follow Bethel, etc. Or at least maybe those involved will wake up from the deception and repent. Wonderful! I admire your resolve. Praise God that He is faithful.

      Rest and take care of yourself. 🙂

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  28. godlee,
    That is awesome news! So good to hear how God is moving in these circumstances. God bless you and we will continue to pray for all those involved, especially those who are deceived still.

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  29. Thank you all for your prayers. I actually rested my mind some today. I called my office managers pastor today and he too prayed over me and asked the Lord to help me to lay down this burden and give it to Him. It’s been almost more than I can bear, but God is faithful and I’m beginning to feel peace about the situation. At least God gave me the boldness to come out with all that was going on—all the manipulation, spiritual abuse, the twisting and mangling of Gods word, the director even bragging about how she was trained in college (communications, public relations) in how to manipulate people. She is indeed an expert.
    I do have a special prayer request. Please pray that she will not be able to manipulate her way out of this—–that something will be done—-either her conversion or her expulsion. I just have to give it to God now. Thank you all, God the Father bless you all in love and peace through our Lord Jesus Christ.

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    • HI!

      I seem to remember feeling much like what you described when I first started seeing the truth in charismania. It was an incredible, horrible time that I would not want to go through again. No one listened to me then, but this blog has helped others. We never know how it will work out, but the point is, God works it out according to His plan and His ways. We will continue to pray for the truth to be known. Christians should have the benefit of the power and truth given by the Holy Spirit to reveal what needs to be seen. She may be an expert manipulator, but that form of witchcraft is powerless before the Lord!

      Consider putting this journey together in a more complete form. It would be beneficial to many. We can post it here or you can start your own blog! wow. The possibilities –

      hugs and prayers your way!

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  30. Just read your comment this morning!! Gods timing is perfect. I’ve been going thru another phase of discouragement, but I re-read a last chapter in Kevin Reeves book “On the other side of the River” a few minutes ago and was encouraged by that too. I was at the cnt. just yesterday and the office manager now acts as if nothing has happened and was inviting me to the Preg. cnt. party thursday at the lake and the upcoming retreat in August. I just smiled and said I’ll see. This is so disorienting, especially when they’ve all turned so syrupy sweet toward me—including the director. I realize these are temptations to get me to back down and join in the fun. The director even offered to teach me how to swim—how ironic. I don’t want to drown in the “river”!!
    The devil knows how much I desire true Christian fellowship and is throwing in all the hooks. Kevin Reeves makes the point in his book that to play around with this stuff or these people is dangerous ground, being that Gods door of enlightenment may not stay open indefinitely——that our conscience can become seared like theirs. I had one lady at the River church to tell me that my conscience was just overly sensitive right now because I’ve been spiritually abused at my old church. I came home thinking—–why would I ever NOT want a “sensitive” conscience??? Thank God my conscience is still sensitive to whats right and wrong!!!
    I realize that like you said—–I may need to get all this out in writing—-publicly even, perhaps. I’ve actually written an article to the local newspaper, but didn’t feel I should submit it yet, so instead I’ve decided to begin by discreetly writing a letter with an outline of all I’ve dealt with at the cnt. and either e-mail it or send by mail to the local pastors. Please pray with me about this. God’s timing is everything. Thank you for your prayers and feedback—-I desperately need both!!

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    • No, we don’t want you to be drowned in the river, either! 🙂 It is amazing to me that so often people can utter the same phrases when we are simply trying to warn them. I was also told that y past involvement made me sensitive. What they miss out on is the fact that we are given eyes to see what they refuse.

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      • Hi Mkayla,
        My husband and I were just talking this afternoon about why I just don’t feel peace about leaving the situation at the Cnt, but I also don’t feel peace about staying!! The thing is —-I would feel peace if the director either left or repented—-one of the two. Maybe, I just have to wait upon the Lord and see what happens. I have to say, it’s all such a learning experience for me. It’s such a mystery to me how God works in situations like this to open our eyes. Perhaps just writing about it is the chicken way out—-but I cringe at the thought of more face to face confrontation where I’m manipulated and condescended to. Just venting I guess. Thanks for your prayers and comments. I really enjoy reading your blog. God bless.

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        • I didn’t feel peace about leaving the ministries I was involved with either, but I knew it was the right decision after I saw they did not teach scripture. Their ways and means of operation were that of other religions including witchcraft, tho I did not know all of this in the beginning, only that their ways were not found in the word.

          I don’t believe God wants us in situations like that. I know we can feel called to speak the truth, which I agree with, but I don’t necessarily believe we are to linger.

          I am glad you have found my blog helpful. 🙂

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  31. mkayla,
    I’m back to square one. I just received a letter from the Preg. Cnt. office manager that I thought I could speak truth to. She read “The other side of the River” book and acted somewhat strange, but said it was a good book, acted in agreement, etc. So last wk. I took her a book “In the name of Purpose” against the Rick Warren P.E.A.C.E plan. Turns out, her pastor that she had taken the “River” info. to—has done the “Purpose-Driven” study in his church. She has e-mailed me about her concern for my “emotional welfare” concerning this “witch-hunt” that I am on, encouraging me to drop it and just be Jesus to people, love everyone, etc. She said I’m in bondage to fear which keeps me suspicious of everyone. She has begged me to let go of this and let God restore me to “peace.” I’m still in somewhat shock over all this. I know–you told me so—–ha! At least now I know why nothing was getting done!
    I guess it’s time for plan B huh? When will I ever learn to listen to my first hunch?? I can’t find anywhere in the Bible where I’m to witness to a wolf—-only warn others of them. Pray that I will be brave for God. Thanks

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    • You are brave Lee Anne. You stayed there speaking the truth, which they don’t want to hear. I’m sorry it turned out this way, but with the Lord there is always hope.

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  32. Thanks mkayla,
    I’m going there today, I guess to be “scourged in their synagogue.” I know they find it strange that I have distanced myself from them so much, but I had to for conscience sake. I know I’m to have no fellowship w/ works of darkness, but to expose them. That’s actually what I must do —–expose them. I’ve just been trying to get all my ducks in a row first, “studying to show myself approved of God.” I’ve also told most of my clients why I will be leaving soon. They’ve even told me they will be leaving too once I’m gone because all the other counselors try to fill them full philosophical garbage. It’s sad because I love all these people. I confess it hurts to be treated so badly just for trying to spread the gospel and truth. I know why it’s happening, —-that helps, but it’s still painful. Yet, I rejoice that I’ve been counted worthy to suffer for Jesus’ name sake, but I feel the worst is yet to come.
    I guess it’s just like God to send a quiet little weakling like me, someone so insignificant that is looked upon with pity by such wealthy, highly influential elitists. Boy does God have a sense of humor!! Still I praise Him and am thankful and content. I Bless you all for all the encouragement you’ve provided during all this.

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  33. I agree with M’kayla that you are brave and that they have no authority over you, unless you give it to them. That’s my concern for you that you may stay to long and from experience I know that it can cause much harm, hurt and damage if you do. I pray that you listen to and follow the discernment and the leading of the Holy Spirit. There is no doubt that persecution comes but if God is and has given you a clear way to escape out of this then you should be all means take that exit He has opened to you. Will be keeping you in prayer.

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  34. Thank you Pat and Mkayla,
    I left the Preg. Cnt. for good today!!!!!!! I’m still amazed at how it all happened. After I typed you this morning, I just kept praying that God would release me from this burden of going there in person, begging God to let this be my last day there, so that I could begin my ministry in writing. While praying I realized there was only one thing really holding me back. I didn’t feel I had presented all the material to the Director, to be fair. Not wanting to confront her and be manipulated again, I packed up all the papers (some from this site) to take and just hoped God would make a way for me to do this one last thing because truthfully, I’m tired.
    God actually showed me something before leaving that I had never known. I got on gotquestions.org and found out what 2 John really means by testing the spirits with the question of whether Jesus came in the flesh. It has to do with His true nature, His diety. I compared this with what I found from Apprising Min. on the Bill Johnson book review WHIE. I reviewed two specific quotes on pages 29 and 79, how Bill tries to convince that Jesus did His miracles as a man and not as God, because if they believe the latter, they would have to confess that they couldn’t do the same miracles as Jesus because we are not God. I was amazed seeing this come together, right before leaving.
    I presented this, along with the direct question to both the director and board member (who were waiting to meet with me) I’ll write about that later——–I asked “do you believe that Jesus was God in the flesh while on earth” They would look at each other, pause and ask me to clarify, etc. I asked this same question, at least a handful of times, even asked why they couldn’t answer that simple yes or no question. They said they sensed in their spirit that they shouldn’t answer because of how I “worded” it and that I was nit picking. I reassured there was an essential reason I had to ask. They still refused to answer.
    So finally, I said, “ok, forget how I “worded” that question, just tell me who you think Jesus was and is——they could only say “the son of God and a part of the trinity” While squinting their eyes at me, asking me why I was asking. I then explained why and that I believed Jesus was and is God in the flesh because the Bible makes it clear He was. They just said “hmm” and still did not confess Jesus as God!! I’m still in shock. Sorry so long. What do you all make of this?

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    • Lee Anne, I think it is a good thing you are out of there and now you can rest from all you went through trying to help them. I don’t know what to say about them refusing to answer you that way. How silly! I believe when bible believing Christians spend time in false doctrine (I know it sounds oxymoronic) they begin to believe the false over the truth. We are called out of the world, to expose the darkness yet to have nothing to do with false teachers as we have nothing in common with them. Scripture is quite clear who Jesus Christ is, even the name Immanuel, God with us shows that. Even non believers sing it at Christmastime! Ugh. Bill Johnson does not teach pure gospel – Jesus the son of God, remained God and man at the same time, the Savior-Messiah. He has his own ideas and as time goes by they become more peculiar. Still, what an odd position they took on it, huh? Maybe it shows they are not believers, maybe they are so confused they don’t know what they believe.

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  35. They sure didn’t mind trying to put me thru the wringer. Before the meeting the office manager had written me a very condescending e-mail concerning this “witch hunt” she’s begging me to let go of—saying I’m in “bondage to fear” which keeps me “suspicious” of everyone. I replied back, asking if she would accuse Apostle Paul of these things. She also said things that revealed a “holier than thou” attitude which was very insulting, but I’ve not taken it personal at all. In fact, I’m amazed by the strength God has given me to be bold yet gentle. Thanks for your prayers! I even started laughing in the middle of the meeting, telling them that it’s a miracle of God that I’m able to come out with all this. They looked at me funny! ha
    I was completely prepared, God gave me all the last minute details that totally put their beliefs on the line. I handed out all the papers, Bible vss., etc. I only met with the director and one member of the board who said she represented the rest of the board (suspicious). Coincidently, she smiled and said in a mocking manner that she was also a part of the “River” church in town! She also made it clear to me that they have always been ecumenical and always plan to be. So I asked many questions as to what they are willing to expose clients to—-I was shocked!—practicing Muslims, Mormons, etc. are allowed to spiritually counsel clients as long as they profess a “relationship w/ Jesus” (whoever “Jesus” is to them basically). I’m still wondering why they were never up front in the beginning. They did say they were making a lot of changes, which I didn’t give them time to explain, I just presented my case, asked the crucial, essential questions and told them I wanted to end my case in prayer and leave for good due to my conscience toward God. They were wanting to pray over me instead—I refused. I poured my heart out to God out loud, crying tears that I didn’t know I had. I realized how much I really love them (think they did too)and how heartbroken I really am. I couldn’t help but pray for God to extend them more time and mercy, although I had thought before that I would pray for Gods judgment. However, I just prayed for His Sovereign will not my own limited will. I actually seen the director at a loss for words, which has never happened before. Yet, there was no repentance, only a half-hearted attempt to “save face” by saying—-“I’m not perfect” How sad.

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