Suffering Song

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42 thoughts on “Suffering Song

  1. I actually have a question. you stated that you left a Vineyard Church but you didn’t state which one.There are so many. Do you believe that the whole Vineyard organization is not biblically correct? Back in the day, My previous Pastor went to Toronto to see about what he kept hearing about. He came back and put a stop to things that were starting to happen in our Church. My understanding is that Toronto was told to stop but refused, So they disassociated themselves from the Vineyard. Reading you prev blogs naming the Vineyard is like a double disturbing to me and the 35 families that have left Our Vineyard Church in Salinas, CA, because Oor Pastor got mixed up with Keith Schadd from the Santa Cruz School of the Supernatural/ covered by Bethel- Redding. he refused to listen to his congregation, elders,, board members. This movement crept in and did a hostile takeover. Within 1 and 1/2 year 35 families have left hurt and confused. I read Tom Peterson Blog and what happen in his church, it sounded so famliar without the great outcome that is… We tried so hard to fight this movement that came in to the Church we’d been members of for years…so hear you mention the Vineyard is just even harder and more confusing. I am thank you for with your site- I am like minded and was the whistle blower-alarm sounder-the voice who stood up…no matter what i suffered . i would still do it again. I still fear for my other brothers and sisters that are caught up in this deception.

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    • Christina, I cannot speak for all Vineyards. The one I attended was only for a short time. But it was full of Charismania – Toronto even tho the pastor claimed that J Wimber spoke against it, the same beliefs were being practiced and taught. I am speaking of the false prophetic aka personal prophetic words, words of destiny, etc., a big focus on healing, calling out words of healing that never manifested. The pastors were already steeped in Catholicism, reading and selling books written by Catholic priests and followers of such mysticism. This is what we know as Emergent. Bill Johnson of Bethel was creeping in, John Paul Jackson…many well known names.

      And yes, it is sweeping throughout the churches of the world. Our protection is the Lord, through the leading of the Holy Spirit and His word. 🙂

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      • The Vineyard Church of DuPage seems to be a mixture of people involved and not involved in the Toronto movement. My friend has de-friended me over refusal to go to a conference where Heidi Baker was the keynote speaker. These people are talking about being the people of His Presence. The issue is that he has suggested I may not be healed and have to go to surgery because I refused. Today he is vitriolic towards me. The people I have gone to fellowship with are unaware of the problem. This Vineyard assembly is also sponsoring a Life Group on Immanuel Prayer, which is very close to Sozo. I personally can see the effects of the spirits, but no one else can. I will be talking to the pastor but have little hope of gaining headway. Too many names in ministry in this assembly are corrupted by these things. I cannot allow a young man to pray for me for healing because he has gone to the Iris Global school in
        Mozambique. Unless I can stand against this and see God tear it down. I would like to know if I may talk to someone over the phone on this. My meeting with the
        pastor will be scheduled soon. Thanks.

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    • I am so grateful for this website and the boldness to expose the false deception, with Bethel Redding and other churches following this same movement of lies, and doctrine of demons. We have been attending Bethel for 6 years now and in the past month have decided to study everything about Bethel’s history. I will just make a very long and painful story short. I believe God was waking us up.

      We moved to Redding for Bethel because we loved it so much. We loved the freedom we felt to worship and it was the most free feeling we were never able to experience at any other church.
      Soon after moving here, we decided to get more involved taking classes, and started noticing some people were laughing out loud at inappropriate times, jerking, using strange unholy words that were not of God. We started questioning certain things that were accepted by Bethel thinking maybe we were missing out on something with God that these people had and we wanted it, (even though it looked strange to us) But we never had this so called encounter with God that they were experiencing.

      We started feeling awkward and felt we stood out, being noticeable that we were not like them. They would pray over us over and over for us to experience these so called encounters of God. Getting to my point this was Kundalini. Please if you have never heard of it, please look it up on You Tube, by Andrew Strom. It woke us up!!!! we still continued to go to Bethel, loved the music, the hugs, loving on one another, but the silliness, of the fire tunnels, and the uncontrollable laughter, the jerking, and the drunkenness that was getting more and more prominent, was getting to me.
      I kept thinking how Holy our Lord is, and I better start questioning Bethel’s history because its feeling very new age to me, something was wrong. In attending Bethel I understand that many witches come to Bethel to cast spells and whatever else they do.
      Being able to pray on Bethel’s grounds, one has to go to the healing room training.
      That is another joke. You have to start out as a red dot (not being able to pray or touch anyone when praying in the healing rooms. Then you advance after awhile to yellow (being able to touch and pray at times (only when you are directed by the Green dot who is the lead person that does the praying. They have teams of 3 with each person needing prayer.
      I was a red dot and recently banned from praying in the healing rooms because I held a lady hands that wanted me to hold her hands. I wasn’t going to say no! I felt that Jesus would have done what I did to make the person feel safe and secure during the prayer. I was seen by one of the healing room leaders, and yelled at to drop her hands at once! I said to her ” could you please let Jesus be Jesus? and she was so mad at me for listening to her that she reported me and treated with me with shame & condemnation, and it has been a 5 month ordeal with the the lady that reported me and the pastor of the healing rooms. Both of these people are very well known and have been in the healing rooms over 5 years. This should show you that they were not concerned about the person being prayed for but were upset that I did not listen to the leader when she came up to me to let her hands go during the prayer being said with her( I was embarrassed, humiliated, and felt terrible for the girl being prayed for. I did not drop the lady hands, I continued to hold them. The pastor told me that I was wrong in not doing what was asked of me. I couldn’t believe it!!! I was shocked and tears ran down my cheeks. He told me to be a red dot 2 more times. I went to healing rooms one more time after that, when he emailed to see me again ( 5 months this has been going on) He told me to do the red dot 2 more times. I said to him that he was treating me like a bad girl, and I felt I was being punished. He said to me that until I could be teachable that I cannot be in healing rooms. I kept asking him what he meant? he would not answer me as though I was suppose to figure it out and I honestly couldn’t. I was speaking from the bottom of my heart and he got up from the table and left me sitting there. I was shocked!!! Would Jesus do this to me???? all I want to do is love on people and pray for them, and help heal the broken hearted.

      Well it’s over ……it’s obvious that it’s all about being controlled, and not about the person being prayed for. I realized that what he meant was ” if you cannot be controlled (teachable) you cannot be in the healing rooms whether you were right, you were wrong!…the other person yelling at you (leader in healing rooms 51/2 years is not getting reprimanded for her terrible behavior, but I am being kicked out because I held hands with a sweet lady who needed to feel secure, safe and loved and comfortable by holding my hands.
      This was a real awakening, and since then I have been on a journey for truth. I am so grateful for Mkayla for exposing the lies. I am done with the drunkenness, the so called holy laughter that they say is from God and it is not! The God of Bible say;s ” And you will know them by their fruits! Matt 7:16- 20 And I don’t see any fruit. I also don’t see any love here. I see entertainment, and drunkenness, a profit making organization.
      Blessings

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      • hopeofglory123, we have such similar stories and experiences. I forgot about the dot thing in the healing rooms. We had them too. When the Lord started to show me the truth and I started to question things, I continued to participate. I could swear that started a very ugly and painful spiritual battle that had severe consequences. There was turmoil between me and the other leaders in the healing room that I had been a part of as well. I was their “lead intercessor” and associate director. The odd part to the break was the fact that nothing, nothing had actually happened between us – their was no event, no words, no disagreement of any sort. It’s like my power to interceed – and yes, it is believed there is a power there, a place with God that no one else has (false, of course)- well, it just stopped. I suddenly didn’t have what it took – I didn’t pray in the right way, or play the right music….it was nutty. From my end, it’s like I hit a wall and at the same time I had NO desire to pray that way or even to be with them. Even I couldn’t explain it. But there was a very strong disconnect taking place. It was harsh and emotional and I did resign, and didn’t look back. I will agree with you – there is a definite elitism that takes place in these organizations. They do believe they have a certain place with God that no one else does. They believe they have the same power and authority as God thru the name of Jesus Christ. But the things that go on, as you describe- the manifestations are as wicked and evil as they are bizarre. Have you ever noticed how they seem to mimic disease? They do. Why, oh why could we have ever attributed such ugliness to our beautiful Lord? So happy you are out! My heart and hugs go out to you – lol – and yeah…I am holding your hand! 🙂 Much love in Christ!

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      • Thank you so much for sharing this because it is helping this ‘old bird’ figure things out some. I’ve been born again for nearly 40 years and have seen ALOT of changes in the church landscape through the years. Although I’ve been ‘out there’ by experiencing some pretty wild things spiritually, I also look for real fruit to be born out of my relationship and connection with the Lord in reading His Word and prayer. Without a close connection with the Lord deception will creep in and you will begin to see the entertainment aspect start as well as the offering plates then delusions follow in rapid succession. I certainly dodged a bullet or two the last few years by simply staying put and prayerful observance from a safe distance.

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    • There is a problem with the Vineyard in Columbus ohio area. I just resigned my membership and got the heck out of the place. It is a place where people in vast numbers are leaving in great numbers, being replaced by great numbers, and so there is a revolving door in and out. Some stay but some that are like some pastors leave. I am a minister in another organization but I soon recognized that the religion they practice is a false Christianity. It is a big organization and international, and the place is ok so long as one does not say the least bit negative in it. Then you are recorded in their records as a trouble maker. So how do you fix something that is broke? They choose to ignore it. So I had enough and quit the ungodly organization after I heard from a police officer who had a good friend go there where the Vineyard treated her badly and she committed suicide. So there you have it. Don’t go there unless you have a death wish.s

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  2. The Toronto Vineyard was asked to leave the Vineyard movement primarily because of the manifestations-to wit, they were letting any and everything happen and saying it was all of God. Wimber disagreed with that but the Arnotts didn’t and continue in that vein today.
    From Wikipedia’s article on the ‘Toronto Blessing:’
    “In 1995, the Airport church was released from affiliation with the Vineyard movement. The reasons for the disaffiliation were for growing tension over the church’s emphasis on extraordinary manifestations of the Holy Spirit and the Vineyard leadership’s inability to exercise oversight over the revival.[1]”
    This was about a year after I left the local Vineyard here in my city.

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  3. This is still spreading. “the Spirit West Coast” that comes here every year, allowed a tent to be put next to the concession stands . this tent they called “the Spirit tent.” they offered prayer/ dream interpretation, reading tattoos?…and mostly used it as a way to gain NEW STUDENTS willing to pay to go thru their School. the Santa Cruz School of the supernatural/Bethel,CA . when i posted a blog on Spirit West Coast site the director contacted me right away in attempt or discourage me from disclosing information to the promoters who hadn’t known about the Tent. or the affiliation the director has with this organization.
    The members that have left are very much affected by the lost of our church and the lack of help from the Vineyard Organization. The once thriving church of 300 members has dwindled to 28 members and no more children Sunday school or youth group.but good news elsewhere other churches are making their stand. Insisting their pastors and all others to resign,and warning that no one affiliated with the School of Supernatural will be allowed to hold any positions at their churches.Good news but we all must be ready to make a stand eventually, cuz the worst is yet to come!..times of testing are ahead.

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  4. It seems like the Devil is in and corrupting all religious organizations . Trying to find god in them and receive true baptism ,but its hard to pick a church. I don’t trust any of them. They don’t preach the gospel, the message of the kingdom of God, and repentence . Who can we go to to recive baptism , for the remission of sins and the gift of the Holly Spirit. I was baptized as an infant and I read somewhere were we can baptize ourselves. Your opinion is greatly appreciated. Thank You

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    • Hi Lou, sad and true. We are seeing such a falling away, aren’t we? I say baptize yourself. It’s about obedience to the Lord as He commanded it to be so, and not so much about finding the right person to do it. I recently baptized someone in my bathtub. 🙂

      Blessings.

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  5. Thank you for this blog M’kaya,

    It’s funny, I went to the Brownsville (an offshoot of the Toronto “blessing”) ‘revival’ back in the 90s, and didn’t receive anything.

    Now many years later, seeing what all that has led to in the church at large……I’m glad!!!

    Thank The Lord He preserved me through it! Even though I did get sucked into KCM’s teachings for a long time; even went to two conferences. I never did ‘receive’ any so called ‘gifts’, or have any manifestations.

    And to think I thought (at the time)there was something wrong with my faith, lol

    But The Lord has been opening my eyes to the truth. Recently, when I had been seeking The Lord, to seek His Heart and not His Hand, I had started to get this idea. More of a question; When have I ever heard Ken, Gloria, Creflo, Jesse, Jerry, JPJ, Crouch, or anyone on TBN, ever preach on repentance!

    Also, when have I ever heard at a conference or on TBN someone give a call to the lost to come to Jesus………….again, never!

    I always thought it was funny that the ‘gospel’ they were preaching didn’t include a call to sinners or backsliders, when, after was saved I was discipled to be a soul winner.

    To me the gospel is the good news that Jesus died for our sins, and that simply repenting and believing on him as savior ‘and Lord’ (we cant leave that out)was our chief message and mission.

    It seems the WOF people always left that part out

    Anyways, sorry if this kind of took a left turn from your topic. It’s just that I am excited to finally know the truth!

    Bob

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  6. We live in Mechanicsburg , PA. where the new school of supernatural healing is. They have moved in beside our home( a family of believers and some other students) Using a residence like a dormitory. They have been very disruptive at night time. Playing loud music screaming and singing using weird words. Chanting using drums, guitars, and some kind of synthesizer sound. It is not only disrupting my children from their studies and sleeping at night, but we are all a bit freaked out by them. They also have a home on our block that is filled with all females. Two weekends ago they had a huge party in their house and outside of house. Acting crazy and chanting and loud talking/laughter till about 11 at night. Again two of my youngest children, were trying to sleep. To make matters worse I have three children who have the same hereditary auto immune disease that I have. (Rheumatoid Arthritis) We require more sleep then others, and my youngest 9 month old son was born with Down Syndrome. (which poses its own issues for him, plus babys do require more sleep.) Anyway before I knew fully what they were all about, I tried to be polite about it and tell them that our family is unique, and that I would appreciate that after 9 they pipe down and be respectful, not only to us, but to all the neighborhood. The elder female ( which I now know, claims to be a big healer and talks at some of these conferences) asked if she could heal us all. That she was a bible student who can heal us all. Even my son with Down Syndrome??? I about went ballistic, but held back my anger and told her that we study the bible as well. And that only God and Jesus can truly heal us. And that he is the one who made us, even our son with Down syndrome who is perfect in every way. How insulting, like you could just take Down Syndrome away, REALLY? Anyway we had another blow up last night, where I had to call the patriarch of this family to stop the loud noises and craziness at 9:45 PM. It stopped immediately after that call, but I just know that isn’t the end of us dealing with their craziness. One of the younger men also talked to my oldest daughter (who is 17) and a couple of her friends and asked them if they believe in the supernatural world beyond here. And they all started touching the one boy who had a brace on his leg and asked him if he could feel it was fixed and healed. Of course the older kids had a chuckle , came in and told us, and my daughters friend had his knee surgery 2 weeks later. They are so bogus… I really want to know how safe we are? My kiddos are afraid to play in the back yard, if people are outside over there. We have enough going on in our lives, We really don’t need this added stress of craziness.

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  7. Alert your teens because they seem to target them. Their Doctrine is a False Doctrine….What you can do is this: call 911 they are disturbing the peace…you can make an anonymous tip. if they are renting you can find out who owns their rental or manages it, the County Assessor’s office will have their info; it is public information. You can contact the owner and make your compliant there.

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    • We have had lengthy discussions with our older kiddos ages (17, 15, 14 & 13) The owners of the house, both hold positions in the “supernatural school,” They bought 2 homes on this street, and the man and woman live beside us with some of their boy children…the youngest is 15, and other men rent rooms there too. The home across the street houses the girls , all ages 18 and above. Their 15 yr old flees their home every chance he gets. My oldest daughter does talk to him, and he has expressed his families weirdness and that he doesn’t fully believe everything. He was adopted into this family as we’re 4 others,. I believe they have 9 children total. We are very aware when our daughter talks to him, which is always outside in our back yard. She said he seems very lonely and really has no friends. He told her, that even if she was aloud to go over there, that he would invite her, because they can be very strange. We had a talk with our daughter, and she is ready if ever approached or challenged with our faith vs. Theirs….. The whole thing just freaks me out. A few days ago, they brought two car loads of people, about 11 total to show the two homes to. I read on their eyesight, that they are calling for people to move to Mechanicsburg, PA. To be closer to this supernatural school, and they have a conference coming up soon here in Mechanicsburg and also one before that in Harrisburg, which is 5 miles. AwAy. It looks like we will be the ones looking to move sooner then we anticipated. I have no doubt that the church paid for the homes and put them in the neighbors names, so that they can avoid taxes. Since the homes are being used like dormitories. Another way to put more $ in their pockets

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      • I would contact the city and let them know what is going on with the housing, at least. That number people brings issues that could be violations of ordinances set up to protect other home owners – noise, disturbing the peace, parking, oh, and tax evasion??? Give them the link to that website.

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  8. Wow, I feel for you. it was a calculative planing when they entered our Church building. thou we were unaware of it at the time. they slowing took over church positions one by one till they every position was replaced by one of their members. This movement is creeping into the churches all over the state and overseas and your right it is about the money. their schools cost people thousands of dollars.The Spirit West Coast has even allowed them to set up their tents at their crusades. Pretty soon the true believers will be the underground church. Our youth must know their word. “You cannot tell the truth from the lie..if you don’t know the truth!’ THIS MINISTRY twist and PULL scripture out of contents. Many of their leaders have never attended accredited bible colleges. if you go on line you can find out more about their false Doctrine and belief system. THE SCHOOL COMES OUT OF THE “Bethel Church, Redding, California” AND BETHEL came out of IHOP…INTERNATIONAL HOUSE OF PRAYER/ CINCINNATI. Their earliest approach is SOZO sessions. if your church starts to allow these sessions to take place then you know that they are among you. I watch good families, longtime friends turn into people I couldn’t recognize they were like in a trance like state..no eye contact. like the movie. the Body Snatchers!

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  9. I am in prayerful hope for the love of my life, she and I are 25, and we met on Christian Mingle. She is a member of IHOP, and has been for about 7 years, she has recently been missing something and did not know what it was, she did not have a strong upbringing but her parents were followers of Jesus Christ and read scripture regularly to their children of which she is one. We began courting and having only known each other for a few months we began to share deeply about our love for Christ and hope for our future, she shared that she had not had a relationship with the leadership/pastors and that she wanted this. As we have gotten closer, defining biblical marriage with each other and sharing a like mindedness about most of the minor things and all of the major theology, the only “one thing” we did not discuss was details she believes about prayer, worship, and corporate function as given by IHOP. To be honest I only knew a small portion of truth about “goings on” in the ministry, but felt God will have His way and can work on her heart and mine in the things that are not acceptable in His sight. Five days after attending the One Thing conference for the 7th year, she being in Kansas City, I being from Texas, said over the phone mixed with tears: ” I believe we need to end our relationship, because I cannot love you wholeheartedly, and because I feel God is calling me to serve here at IHOP.” Now there are many details I need not share that make this a shock, but I will give you only the important ones. Both of our parents were shocked, I have never kissed any girl, never have I touched anyone or kissed her. I have lead her both in the Word and in prayer, but I know now she is deceived by experiential prayer and worship through this ministry and does not know the history or the depth of the religious charade. Now I know there are many sold out to God, born again Christians who have come out of or are connected in some way with IHOP, but she is deceived and….I Love Her! Please if you or someone you know who has come out of this will talk with me or possibly even her, all I want in the least is to give her Truth so that she might be free from bondage. Thank you for your time and patience reading this. Please pray that I might be bold and speak the Truth in love!
    Sincerely hopeful,

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    • Ethan, you need to get away from this person no matter how you feel about her. She is in deception and not one the Lord would have you be with. You have nothing in common spiritually. Nothing.

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  10. I recently have been researching Rick Warren and his affiliation with the Muslim society. My sisters church is using his books on Transformation. She belongs to a Vinyard church. I told her to get out of there. Rick Warren believes Muslims and Christians worship the same God! NOT!!! He also never mentions the sin nature,repentance,or the Cross of Christ that can transform the hearts and lives of a Christian once he or she is saved. There is so much Herasy in the churches today that I can’t find one that preaches the Gospel! I belonged to a church that started grave sucking like Bill Johnson and I booked out of there as quick as I could!! Apostasy is here people! Jesus is coming soon!! Be careful what you here. If they don’t preach the Cross of Christ and Him crucified get out! It’s another Jesus and another Gospel!

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    • Hello I have to chime in here I have a responsibility..I have attended Saddle back church for two years and then because of God calling us out to help with a small plant of Mars Hill in Orange county. We left Mars hill after moving here to O.C. from Seattle and attending Mars Hill there. I’m relieved to see what has happened with Mars Hill as of late. My husband and I confronted the leadership here about issues with leadership in classes that women were not treated Godly. They then became abusive during the meeting we asked for to be up front and talk about our concerns so we knew all we could do then was pray for our friends there and go. I will say though that Rick Warren does preach repentance and sin and all of the above writer was concerned about and those comments have come from someone possibly who has not sat under his teaching. We had been encouraged to not shy away from others beliefs but not to embrace their belief for our own. We had and have been about one thing only and that is to share the love of Jesus Christ and see others come to Christ in repentance and new life in Christ. Many comments I have seen are just simply not true and are a twisted form of what he really preaches and that is the enemy. It is a very large church and it is difficult to find your way to make friends and grow unless you are a determined self starter. Orange county and it’s influences is a tough market to address but much Good has come from the churches efforts.
      Yes Rick is friends with others of other faiths but has always preached the true gospel. To spread things that simply are not true is not God honoring I feel. I have had to learn much from disagreements in churches over the years and have been active in churches that have split for hurtful reasons. But we strive to up lift others caught in this kind of heart ache in prayer. Yes I personally will not condone Bethel I have a daughter who attended there and she since has gone off the deep end living on the streets in Redding now because of the church shunning her for standing up for what is right. Now she is one confused young woman and she had been brought up in a home with very strong skills and heart for the word. I do have facts that would not shock people who are trying to bring light to this deception at Bethel. Not every thing you read is true. That is not to say that I disagree with any thing dear M’Kayla you have said. I really would like to know how and why some of the miss truths of Saddle back are coming from. I personal have sat in messages by him that people are objecting to and the words have been twisted by reprinting what he said . He did not say what is being printed.
      I’m saddened by this Thanks

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      • Mother,
        I understand your concerns in wanting to know the truth. If you do a search on my blog there is an entire section devoted to Rick Warren. I don’t believe I have posted anything not true. In addition, I do know men like him who are so -famous- have others who handle his mail and questions that come in. I also know without a doubt that a person can preach Christ and then turn and preach something completely opposite. This is how deception is done. I believe it was Spurgeon who said “Deception isn’t the difference between right and wrong, but the difference between right and almost right”. I would encourage you to take some time to do research to find out all that Warren is involved with because I know him to be a dangerous man. I also want to thank you for being so kind and careful in the way you have presented your concerns here. It means a lot to me.

        Much blessing and peace to you in the name of our Lord. 🙂

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  11. Thank you so much for sharing your testimony with me. It reinforces their legalistic doctrine of demons within. Where is the discernment?? I believe God wants us to pray for Bethel.

    Bless you! 😊💕👑

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  12. Are you currently a member of a Vineyard Church? When i left i researched a SOZO site and saw Many Scheduled events within the Vineyard Churches…and I brought it upto the international Directors attention giving him all the dates, and names of the city..Vineyards where these Sozo meetings were to happen and asked him if this was the reason why he chose to delay coming to help our Church…he thanked me for informing him.

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  13. M’Kayla… its always good to see someone being led from error into truth. I too was a charismatic, born and raised, and I spent a very long time being confused because I didn’t know the Word of Truth. In fact, the things I believed were so wrong that I decided a while ago to start questioning the Dogmas I have been taught and examine them in light of Scripture. Your eyes are being opened and there is nothing comparable to such an amazing thing as this. I hope you are continually blessed with the truth. I invite you to come read my posts as well. As iron sharpens iron, we who have been entrusted with truth must hold each other up and accountable. I am thankful for your testimony.

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  14. Well, it was the Salinas Vineyard in Salinas, CA….and I was a member since 1991…awesome place. The Pastor was also the regional Pastor for northern CA. We were a real family and took care of each other…cell groups, outreach ministry, amazin worship..the works. Our Pastor was sent up to Toronto to see what was goin on up, gave his report and then the founder confronted them…stating to them to stop..but they refused…so Toronto separated from the Vineyard Association. BUT our problem started when our Pastor semi-retired and moved to AZ. He past the baton to his Associate Pastor..who he thought was ready…but he wasnt, things went bad and he had to be removed…but the Core of Church strived to remain…all minstrys in tack!…but eventually exhausted and was like a bird with a broken wing. Some people left and some stayed. The Vineyard regional helped them established a bylaw meant to protect the church…but lack of training and wisdom they gave in to the person who said they’d come to Pastor…without checking his references!….He lied, deceived the congragation…stumbled on the bylaws and proceeded to remove elders one by one who would likely oppose his adjenda. (Our Bylaws stated that by a % of elders they would have power to move a Pastor)…after much success…He then RIPPED up the Bylaws!….He soon got envolved with The BETHEL MOVEMENT-School of SUPERNATURAL-false Doc- then removed the rest of staff, elders, deacons and replaced them with fellow students/ members of The School. The Youth ministry was the 1st. to go then he went after the Childrens ministry’s…these class rooms have been exchanged for Soakin room, Sozo, School of Supetnatural….75 members left. good servants, family oriented…some were able to regain their faith and trust in God and the Church..but many have yet to return. The Vineyard its self is NOT BAD but lack of knowledge of the tactics of our enemy…makes them prey to evilness. This happened to us in 2012….Some of us…are members within another church…we are a church within A church…still functioning the we had before…Caring for each other. JESUS SAYS “My CHILDREN KNOW MY VOICE….ANOTHER THEY WILL NOT FOLLOW “…AND WE ARE TO BE GENTLE AS LAMBS BUT WISE AS A SERPENTS…There must BE BOTH!….THOSE in Leadership must Be Committed to God and The Church Body ready to DEFEND even it means against a Pastor.

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  15. Its interesting to read all these comments as I also receive Andrew Strom’s emails and he highlighted abut Bethel concerns in his book “Kundalini warning”. I notice most comments here are from USA other than one from UK and as I am in Scotland UK I would like to hear from others there., please..A lot of prayer and discernment is needed … Blessings and thank you!

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    • Hi – I have just recently read Andrew Stroms book and was shocked and convicted. I am just leaving a so-called Discipleship Group that has been totally immersed in Bethel teachings and practices and it took me a few months to realise what was going on – suffered great amounts of confusion and shunning from other members who I realise are fake friends. I live in the UK – so interested in other UK comments too

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  16. While Im not from your country, I still think the same rules of thumb apply to anyone from anywhere.
    “You can’t tell the truth from the Lie ….if you don’t know the Truth”

    Knowin your word is whats going to save you, protect you and guide you.
    Read your Word…the Holy Spirit is the comforter Jesus said would come after his death….He is part of the Trinity. He will guide into all truths.
    Get to know Jesus by readin the Gospels. I also recommend this Book if you can order or find it. called “The Gospel according to Jesus”..McArthur is the Author I believe.
    and a good study bible…I like “The Open Book-study Bible” NKV-and The Good News Bible is a great companion bible. It uses modern words without watering the word down. And have become rare becuz there not in print…so whats out there is all there are.
    Good luck…and be blessed!

    Christina from America

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    • Christina, John McArthur is a false teacher and very dangerous despite his popularity. He teaches many wrong things about the roles of Christian women, taking the mark of beast, and other issues. I would say to get away from him and allow the Holy Spirit to teach and lead you.

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  17. Sorry, to hear you say that. This book particular book does speak about that, as it is not the subject of the book. I have seen him in person myself and again it was not a subject he spoke about. So I can’t say what he believes personally. But Like all things…research for yourself!
    The book encourages readers to be more focused on what Jesus, said, and stood for…more than Paul…there are some Churches than tend to focus more on Paul’s ministry..So I found it very helpful. Read it for yourself then decide for yourself. Once again The holy spirit will guide you and show you whats what.

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    • Christina, I have done research so why are you sorry to hear me expose the dangers and should instead be glad to know the truth. There are a few articles on my blog exposing his teachings, I suggest a look at those and that you begin an in-depth study of the scriptures in comparison.

      In addition, it is crazy to attempt to divide the teachings of Christ from the teachings of Paul. in John 1, we read that Jesus is the Word! We cannot possibly create a division because the bible is taught and understood as a whole, in context. Paul is responsible for the writing and teaching of most of the New Testament. This is very disturbing!

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  18. I was more concern with the person who started the conversation. This whole conversation stirs up confusion. Thats why I Suggest that anybody including myself..to research for yourself. Dont take my word or anybodys word..”read it FOR yourself then you decide.”…. I can’t and you can’t be everywhere…people must learn to decern for themselves…where ever they go…whatever they hear or read. I can respect your opinion but I still need to know for myself…understand what I tryin to say?….I dont want to add to this persons concerns or confusion. I, like you only want to help. Guideing tools is what I saw She needed, what everybody needs. But its anybodies choice to believe or not believe. follow suggestions or not…its about Choice and the freedom to chose. Think its just as dangerous to try to control people. Bottom line you said something about MacArthur…that I have never seen or heard. You say stuff about Bethel that I have seen and heard. So I believe it to be true but not just becuz YOU said it…but becuz this site confermned that I was on the right track. The bible does give guidance regardin accusations by 3 witnesses;There have been way more posts regarding peoples experiences regarding Bethel including my own experiences, for me to not believe otherwise. But I have yet to hear or read about How MacArthur ruined lives. Nothing personal.

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    • Christina, I believe you are confusing issues. If someone is teaching unsound doctrine it is the place of ALL Christians to expose the error. This is biblical and in this respect the 3 witness does not come into play. The teachings of Bethel are heretical and I have experienced them and their effects and so I warn others. Their doctrine is easy to nail down as false because it has recently become that easy to see. When a man such as John MacArthur blames women for the demise of the church he is lying. The demise is the result of many false teachers and the times we live in which is also biblical. I won’t repost comments already made and is why I encourage you to do your own research. Exposing the truth will never bring confusion, never.

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