Blood, Gore and Horror Evangelism

Or how about a little poltergeist fun…            Boo!

Think you’ve seen it all? Now, maybe we all have!

I guess they call it “entertainment evangelism”. I call it “stuuuuupiiid”. This website (linked below)  is set up as advertising  for a house of horrors held at various locations during the fall of the year to…ahem…preach the good news.  Yes, coinciding with Halloween, which according to them, they don’t believe in. (I don’t know why they think they don’t after seeing all that….) Their not so happy house of horrors opens at dusk for tours offered at a nominal fee. Yes, hot dogs are sold on site for those who like a little feed with the blood spill.

I thought the gospel was to be preached with power from the Holy Spirit to sinners who are in need of a Savior. I thought it was to be done in a spirit of truth and love. This little scheme comes in a spirit of fear and intimidation, with plenty of chilling sights and sounds, some a little too much for me.

The push – What Happens After We Die -an avenue to preach the gospel of Jesus Christ.I don’t know if the “rooms” on this site represent murder scenes leading up to the person’s death and subsequent judgment or if this is some creepy walk down some imagined place between life and eternity. If you think hatchet jobs and poltergeist activity is the way to go in convincing people of their need of a Savior then have at it. I don’t  –  – and wouldn’t want to answer for that one upon my death! And neither will anyone else, let’s get real here.

hmm……..evangelism???   This looks more like a “Nightmare on Elm Street” meets “The Grudge”!

This way to ……

S c a r e m a r e


A warning – The images and sounds are creepy and just as effective as anything Hollywood can cook up. (I know this won’t bother some of you, but for others, I want to put that out there.) I had the added fun of being stuck in a couple of the rooms when the site locked up, not on one occasion, but on two.  The page wouldn’t move but those scary sounds kept oooonnn a playin’.  Ha.  Wonder if it was a coincidence or part of the attraction..It really did scare me, but not into repentance, just to find a way OUTTA THERE!

Why have church? Let’s just invite people over for horror movies and nachos instead!!!

“Hey, think the movie’s scary dude, wait till ya die! Repent now!” ya know??

sick….do these people honestly believe there is glory for the Lord in this yuck?

What do you think?

Stir up the Gift of God

Mike Ratliff at Possessing the Treasure does some very good work. Here’s some I found last night – 🙂 Be Blessed!

Stir Up the Gift of God

April 12, 2010 — Mike Ratliff

by Mike Ratliff

13 Until I come, devote yourself to the public reading of Scripture, to exhortation, to teaching. 14 Do not neglect the gift you have, which was given you by prophecy when the council of elders laid their hands on you. 15 Practice these things, immerse yourself in them, so that all may see your progress. 16 Keep a close watch on yourself and on the teaching. Persist in this, for by so doing you will save both yourself and your hearers. (1 Timothy 4:13-16 ESV)

The way the gospel is presented in our time is backward. It is focused incorrectly. Instead of focusing on what God has done for us who have nothing in and of ourselves to warrant it; the way the gospel is given ever since I can remember is to attempt to make it appealing as if people should decide to try Jesus for 30 or 60 days to see if He makes a difference. What a joke! What blasphemy! To be honest, the closer I get to the front lines in serving my Lord, the more our enemy attacks me. The more I suffer. The more problems I have. However, I do not serve my Lord to get away from that stuff. I serve Him for His glory and my Lord went to the Cross for me so how can I seek the easy way out here and now?

If a person wants Jesus for personal gain then they are seeking another Jesus, not the one I know. The one I know has given me something far more valuable than anything this world has to offer. I have eternal life in Him and no matter how bad the circumstances or attacks from our enemy or medical conditions I must bear in this life, I know that my part until it is over is to stir up the gift of God given to me by Him in order for me to serve Him to edify the Body of Christ and bring Him glory. Therefore, I open the Word of God and teach as He directs.

3 I thank God whom I serve, as did my ancestors, with a clear conscience, as I remember you constantly in my prayers night and day. 4 As I remember your tears, I long to see you, that I may be filled with joy. 5 I am reminded of your sincere faith, a faith that dwelt first in your grandmother Lois and your mother Eunice and now, I am sure, dwells in you as well. 6 For this reason I remind you to fan into flame the gift of God, which is in you through the laying on of my hands, 7 for God gave us a spirit not of fear but of power and love and self-control. (2 Timothy 1:3-7 ESV)

3 Χάριν ἔχω τῷ Θεῷ, ᾧ λατρεύω ἀπὸ προγόνων ἐν καθαρᾷ συνειδήσει, ὡς ἀδιάλειπτον ἔχω τὴν περὶ σοῦ μνείαν ἐν ταῖς δεήσεσί μου νυκτὸς καὶ ἡμέρας, 4 ἐπιποθῶν σε ἰδεῖν, μεμνημένος σου τῶν δακρύων, ἵνα χαρᾶς πληρωθῶ, 5 ὑπόμνησιν λαμβάνων τῆς ἐν σοὶ ἀνυποκρίτου πίστεως, ἥτις ἐνῴκησε πρῶτον ἐν τῇ μάμμῃ σου Λωΐδι καὶ τῇ μητρί σου Εὐνίκῃ, πέπεισμαι δὲ ὅτι καὶ ἐν σοί. 6 δι᾿ ἣν αἰτίαν ἀναμιμνῄσκω σε ἀναζωπυρεῖν τὸ χάρισμα τοῦ Θεοῦ, ὅ ἐστιν ἐν σοὶ διὰ τῆς ἐπιθέσεως τῶν χειρῶν μου· 7 οὐ γὰρ ἔδωκεν ἡμῖν ὁ Θεὸς πνεῦμα δειλίας, ἀλλὰ δυνάμεως καὶ ἀγάπης καὶ σωφρονισμοῦ.  (2 Timothy 1:3-7 GNT)

Paul tells Timothy that he thanks God for him and his sincere faith, which was also evident in his grandmother Lois and his mother Eunice. Because Paul was confident in the sincerity of Timothy’s faith, in v6, he reminds him ἀναζωπυρεῖν  “to fire again to life” τὸ χάρισμα τοῦ Θεου “the gift of the God” ὅ ἐστιν ἐν σοὶ διὰ τῆς ἐπιθέσεως τῶν χειρῶν μου· “which is in you through the setting on of the hands of me.” For a summary of this event read 1 Timothy 4:13-16, which I placed at the top of this post.  Paul is urging Timothy to do what? The word ἀναζωπυρεῖν refers “to keeping the fires alive.” Timothy had received spiritual gifts to serve the Body of Christ. Paul is concerned here with Timothy’s gifts of preaching, teaching, and evangelizing. All believers are stewards of the God-given gifts given to them. It is sinful to let them fall into disuse.

In v7 Paul gives us a hint of why Timothy may have been not using his gifts as he should have been. The word Paul used here that is translated as “fear,” δειλίας, can also be translated “timidity” or “cowardice.” It denotes a cowardly, shameful fear caused by a weak, selfish character. Timothy could have become more timid as the threat of Roman persecution escalated. Also, the Ephesian church resented Timothy’s leadership. This coupled with the many attacks from false teachers could have overwhelmed him. Paul is telling Timothy here that if he is withdrawing in fear then this “Spirit of δειλίας” is not from God. Instead, God has given us the πνεῦμα δυνάμεως καὶ ἀγάπης καὶ σωφρονισμου, the spirit of power and of love and of sober mind (self-control).

Instead of being fearful, we have all the spiritual resources we need for every trial and threat. This does not mean we will not have problems, attacks, or threats, but that we will have the right resources from Him to meet them. The Love here, ἀγάπης, centers on pleasing God and seeking what is best for others before one’s self. The mind-set σωφρονισμου is actually the opposite of fear and cowardice. The spirit of fear causes disorder and confusion. This spirit does the opposite. Why? It focuses on the sovereign nature and perfect purposes of our eternal God. Why is this important? When we more fully understand the sovereignty of God and surrender to it in more and more of our lives, the more godly wisdom and confidence in every situation we will have because we will be fully in line with Him and His will instead of being tossed in every direction by our circumstances.

How do we fan into flames the gift given to us by God that He gave us to enable us to serve the Body of Christ and bring Him glory? We must reject the πνεῦμα δειλίας, the spirit of fear, while embracing the πνεῦμα δυνάμεως καὶ ἀγάπης καὶ σωφρονισμου, the spirit of power and of love and of sober mind. We reject what is not from God and embrace that that we know is from God. This is huge. I suffer from a seizure disorder. Its worsening has coincided almost exactly with God’s elevation of this ministry. I have had several seizures since this condition returned in September last year. In fact, I had one just a week ago. I became spiritually fearful. I was bold when I wrote and taught, but the rest of the time I was not doing so well. I saw a picture of myself holding my grandson last week. It was about three days after the seizure. I looked haunted or worried. What has changed? I had a long talk with my brother about spiritual things. We talked about the spirit of fear and what this does to the boldness of those in ministry. I discovered that my physical symptoms had actually gotten worse. I felt awful. I felt all bound up. He, my wife, my daughter, my son-in-law, and my mother all laid hands on me last week and prayed for the spirit of fear to be gone. My brother did pray for my healing, that I would have no more seizures. That would be awesome, but I am celebrating the fact that the joy of Lord is most certainly back. I am no longer all bound up. The spirit of fear is gone. The boldness I have now is now also accompanied by a joy that is profound. The gift given to me by God has been fanned into flames!

8 Therefore do not be ashamed of the testimony about our Lord, nor of me his prisoner, but share in suffering for the gospel by the power of God, 9 who saved us and called us to a holy calling, not because of our works but because of his own purpose and grace, which he gave us in Christ Jesus before the ages began, 10 and which now has been manifested through the appearing of our Savior Christ Jesus, who abolished death and brought life and immortality to light through the gospel, 11 for which I was appointed a preacher and apostle and teacher, 12 which is why I suffer as I do. But I am not ashamed, for I know whom I have believed, and I am convinced that he is able to guard until that Day what has been entrusted to me. (2 Timothy 1:8-12 ESV)

The more God uses us in the Kingdom, the more we will be partakers in the suffering for the gospel by the power of God. This is just the way it is. Notice that our salvation and our calling are for God’s purposes not ours nor are they according to our works. When we have this mindset, we can endure anything.

Soli Deo Gloria!

New Age, New Thought Info

There is a very good article I recommend reading linked at The Word on the Word of Faith –   Thanks Damon! 🙂

BEWITCHED! “The Evil Eye over Evangelicalism”

This is the title of the latest article by Pastor Larry DeBruyn,* just published in the most recent Discernment Ministries newsletter. This is one of Pastor DeBruyn’s best articles. He explains clearly and concisely how the occult-based philosophy known as “New Thought” has come to be part of the doctrines and practices of the evangelical movement.

The Soul and Treasure of Elton John

It astounds me, that most of the world’s most talented and gifted people cannot give honor to the

Elton John

God who died for them, the one who gave them their abilities to do what they do. They flat out deny Him, speaking their ignorance to the world of things they do not know, becoming a model for others to follow.

People don’t understand why I have a hard time listening to secular music. I believe writing, whether it is the music or the lyrics comes from within a person from the very soul. I believe it is a part of who a person is and epitomizes what they believe. This one believes Jesus, the Messiah was a gay man. I have nothing in common with that man’s soul belief therefore his music has nothing to offer me.

For where your treasure is, there your heart will be also. Matthew 6:21

The famous Elton John and his comment about Jesus being a compassionate, gay man told by NY Daily News.

“Religion promotes hatred and spite against gays,” the openly gay performer told the Observer’s Music Monthly magazine in 2006. “From my point of view, I would ban religion completely.

“”I think Jesus was a compassionate, super-intelligent gay man who understood human problems,” he tells Parade. “On the cross, he forgave the people who crucified him.”

Speaking to WGN-TV entertainment reporter, Dean Richards, John says his statement was taken out of context.

Video interview here

He said, “let me clarify. I’m not saying to everyone that he definitely was gay; that’s just how I see him from MY point of view as a compassionate gay person. I see him as a compassionate person who forgave people. That’s how “I” see him. Everyone’s individual faith is their own business.

Blessed are those who hunger and thirst for righteousness, for they shall be filled. Matthew 5:6

Elton John is partially right. Jesus was compassionate – Matthew 9:36. He did forgive those who crucified him – Luke 23:34.

But there is more –

Jesus is the promised Messiah -John 4:25 The woman said to Him, “I know that Messiah is coming” (who is called Christ). “When He comes, He will tell us all things”. 26 Jesus said to her “I who speak to you am He.”

He is God incarnate – John 1:1 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. 2 He was in the beginning with God. 14 And the Word became flesh and dwelt among us, and we beheld His glory, the glory as of the only begotten of the Father, full of grace and truth.

Homosexuality is a sin – Leviticus 19:22 You shall not lie with a male as with a woman. It is an abomination.

Sin brings death – John 8:24″ Therefore I said to you that you will die in your sins; for do not believe that I am He, you will die in your sins.”

Freedom from the sin of death – John 8:34 “Jesus answered them, “Most assuredly, I say to you, whoever commits sin is a slave of sin. 35 And a slave does not abide in the house forever. 36 Therefore if the Son makes you free, you shall be free indeed.”

Revelation 21:7 – He who overcomes shall inherit all things, and I will be his God and he shall be My son. 8 But the cowardly, unbelieving, abominable, murderers, sexually immoral, sorcerers, idolaters, and all liars shall have their part in the lake which burns with fire and brimstone, which is the second death.

How sad this man cannot see the connection that in Jesus Christ we are free from sin, free to live eternally with the God who created us! What can the world and its lusts offer us in comparison? Nothing is as glorious!

We can make whatever conclusion we would like to, build whatever kind of belief system or religion that suits our own needs to allow us to continue to live the way we choose. But the truth remains the truth, and at the end of life we will all give an account for our choices.  Those who love and practice a lie  – Revelation 22:15 -will not enter in the kingdom of God. Revelation 21:27  But there shall by no means enter it anything that defiles, or causes an abomination or a lie, but only those who are written in the Lamb’s Book of life.

He who testifies to these things says, “Surely I am coming quickly.” Amen. Even so, come, Lord Jesus! Revelation 22:20.

The Beautiful Mystical Lies of Avatar

Some time back I went to see the movie Avatar with my husband. Normally, I take a peek on the internet before I go to get an idea of the movie, but this time I didn’t do that. I have to say after the first couple of minutes I hated the thing.  Yes, it was all so very colorful and wonderful. Yet, It was so strange, very close to Native American beliefs, goddess worship, mother earth and of course the selfish destructive ways of mankind.  But for  me and my experiences there was an eerie reminder of Charismania, that  same “plug in to the source” thing that brings the “knowing”, the power. It was too close to what I have worked so hard to rid myself of.

I told myself none of it really mattered, nothing in the movie is true. But I can’t even agree with myself on that because so many other people who do not know the Lord Jesus Christ and the plans God has for those who believe will be so blinded by this misguided tale. (Just like DaVinci Code.)

I wanted to write something about it but found that I could not remember enough detail to bring a good explanation. I attribute my forgetfulness to my great hatred of the film. But, this morning I came upon a great article, the best I have read and so want to share it here. I so appreciate the work done by the author Berit Kjos! It is with great hope and prayer that the beautiful and mystical lies of Avatar will be revealed and the truth be known. How great the Father’s love for us; Jesus Christ is the Savior and apart from Him there is none.

The article follows and here is the link –

The Mind Changing Myths of Avatar

By Berit Kjos
February 22, 2010

NewsWithViews.com

Blending Hinduism, Shamanism and Goddess Spirituality

“We…need to reawaken something very old…our understanding of Earth wisdom. We need to accept the invitation to the dance — the dance of unity of humans, plants, the Earth.”[1] Deep Ecology

“I propose that Cameron is alluding to that tenth avatar of Vishnu becoming manifest as the US marine in Pandora’s universe. The deliberate choice of the blue skin instantly, magically and metaphorically relates our protagonist to two previous avatars namely Rama and Krishna.”[2] Sita Wadhwani, Mumbai Editor

“When I woke up this morning after watching Avatar for the first time yesterday, the world seemed… gray. It was like my whole life, everything I’ve done and worked for, lost its meaning…. I live in a dying world.”[3] Avatar-forums.com

“…the whole world is under the sway of the evil one.” 1 John 5:19

The tall, long-tailed natives of Pandora, a distant earth-like moon, fit into a unified spiritual network that links all of nature. They ride through the skies on powerful birds, climb the stony walls of magnificent hanging mountains, worship their goddess, and despise the corporate monstrosity that has invaded their habitat in search of priceless resources.

Those earthly intruders intend to excavate Pandora’s most sacred spot. To avoid war, they brought a scientific team trained to befriend the indigenous Na’vi people and persuade them to move.

That team includes latecomer Jake Sully, a paraplegic Marine replacing his slain twin brother. After some training, his mind and consciousness would periodically be transferred to his Na’vi-like avatar — a body originally made to match his brother’s DNA.

Remember the Hindu word avatar? It refers to an incarnation or manifestation of a Hindu god. The most common avatars are incarnations of the god Vishnu, and they include the mischievous flute-playing Krishna (pictured below) and the bow-and-arrow carrying Rama (pictured above). Both are pictured with bluish skin — just like the native Na’vis.

Testing his new avatar legs, tail and body, Jake heads for the forest, admires the flowers, and faces a rhino-sized beast. This strange world is nothing like the gray, polluted earth he left behind![4]

Moments later, a snarling panther-like thanator chases him deeper into the woods where he meets the beautiful Neytiri who aims her bow and arrow at him. Fortunately, she receives a message from her mysterious goddess through a cloud of white flower-like creatures that settle on Jake — a clear sign that the goddess [Eywa] wants Neytiri to befriend this ignorant stranger. But first she scolds him for causing the death of other terrifying pursuers.

Hmmm. Do you wonder why Neytiri carries a bow and arrow when “all life is one”?[5]

Jake does his best to follow the sure-footed Neytiri (climbing, leaping, etc.) back to Hometree, her clan’s sacred domain. She introduces him to Mo’at, her psychic mother who happens to be the tribal tsahik (shaman speaking for Eywa). She tells her daughter to train this “dreamwalker” in their native ways. Some of the clan warriors look skeptical.

Jake is a good pupil, and his lessons on pantheistic unity soon shift his loyalty from his worldly mission to the tribe and Eywa. So when his commander prepares to destroy Hometree and much of the sacred forests, Jake springs into action. Through psychic linkage, he tames and rides the fiercest bird of all — the mighty Toruk, who became his “spirit animal” through a ritual Spirit Quest.[4] Speeding above the forests, he gathers Pandora’s tribes for war.

He prays to Eywa for help, and she answers his plea. She summons birds and beasts of every kind. With such an army, how could they lose?

Her final “miracle” is to transfer Jake’s life from his injured earthly body to his Na’vi avatar. Now, he’s one of them!

It all sounds good to earthlings who love the myth of pantheistic oneness! No wonder thousands of viewers became depressed (even suicidal) after visualizing Pandora’s wonders — then having to drop their 3-D glasses into the recycling bin at the exit! Ponder the potential effect of this seductive journey on those who love fantasy more than facts:

“Ever since I went to see ‘Avatar’ I have been depressed. Watching the wonderful world of Pandora and all the Na’vi made me want to be one of them. I can’t stop thinking about all the things that happened in the film… I even contemplate suicide thinking that if I do it I will be rebirthed in a world similar to Pandora…'”[3] (Mike at Avatar-forums.com)

The reality behind this mind-bending, feeling-based mythology is the existence of an occult spiritual system. Avatar’s promotion of pantheism and panentheism point to the “spiritual unity” at the heart of Hinduism, Native American shamanism and the worship of Mother Earth. They all clash with God’s truth.

“Woe to those who call evil good, and good evil; who put darkness for light, and light for darkness!” Isaiah 5:20-21

1. HINDU GODS AND THEIR AVATARS

Writer and director Sudipto Chattopadhyay believes that Cameron’s choice of the title (Avatar) reflects a Hindu perspective:

“The ancient Hindu scriptures have forever reiterated that whenever the world would be on the brink of disaster and mankind faces extinction… the divine Lord Vishnu would consider it his duty to manifest himself in mortal, palpable form to save mankind from the impending doomsday. …the Avatar is meant to be the savior, the messiah of his own race and people.”[2]

In Cameron’s mythical movie, planet Pandora was certainly facing a major disaster, and Jake — incarnated in his Na’vi avatar — seems to be the saving avatar. After all, he was chosen and approved by the goddess herself!

Chattopadhyay is not the only one affirming the Hindu suggestions in this movie. Rajan Zed, president of the Universal Society of Hinduism, repeats the need for intervention through an avatar — though he may not approve of this movie:

“’Avatar’, a Sanskrit term, means descent or incarnation. Hinduism is shaped by its traditional belief in the incarnation of Vishnu (the Preserver in Hindu trinity) into ten forms to establish dharma (divine law), which include Matsya, Kurma… Rama, Krishna, Buddha…. Hindus believe that without such intervention, the entire created universe would have gone into decline.”[6]

To better understand the pantheistic aspects of Hinduism, please check our Glossary of Religious Terms. For a glimpse of the dark side of Hinduism please read Let the Little Children Come.

2. GODDESS SPIRITUALITY

“The spiritual sense of our place in nature… can be traced to the origins of human civilization,”[7] wrote Al Gore in his 1990 book, Earth in the Balance.

Mr. Cameron would probably agree. Since he and Gore seem to think alike on some issues, ponder this next statement. Here Al Gore suggests that,

“a goddess religion was ubiquitous throughout much of the world until the antecedents of today’s religions…. The last vestige of organized goddess worship was eliminated by Christianity. …it seems obvious that a better understanding of a religious heritage preceding our own by so many thousands of years could offer us new insights…”[7]

Useful “new insights” from “goddess worship”? What might they be? In his next statement, Mr. Gore gives us a clue:

“The richness and diversity of our religious tradition throughout history is a spiritual resource long ignored by people of faith [Christians?] who are often afraid to open their minds to teachings first offered outside their own system of belief. But the emergence of a civilization in which knowledge moves freely and almost instantaneously throughout the world has… spurred a renewed investigation of the wisdom distilled by all faiths. This panreligious perspective may prove especially important where our global civilization’s responsibility for the earth is concerned.”[7]

Finally, Gore quotes Dr. Karan Singh, a Hindu environmentalist who wrote, “The Earth is our mother, and we are all her children.”[7] That should arouse fear rather than comfort, for when we look back to ancient goddess-worshipping cultures, we see unspeakable cruelty. [Read more]

“…they speak a vision of their own heart… They continually say to those who despise Me, ‘The Lord has said, ‘You shall have peace’ and to everyone who walks according to the dictates of his own heart, they say, ‘No evil shall come upon you.’” Jeremiah 23:16

3. NATIVE AMERICAN PANTHEISM, ANIMISM, AND SHAMANISM

According to Al Gore, Native American religions “offer a rich tapestry of ideas about our relationship to the earth.” He quotes Chief Seattle, who supposedly asked this question:

“Will you teach your children what we have taught our children? That the earth is our mother? . . . This we know: the earth does not belong to man, man belongs to the earth. All things are connected like the blood that unites us all.” [7]

Sounds like Pandora, doesn’t it? And it’s just as unreal. Those words were actually written by Ted Perry for a 1971 environmental movie. It was just the message they needed to persuade viewers of their point of view!

Likewise, the mythical Na’vi present “right” ideology. Largely patterned after today’s idealized views of Native Americans, they draw viewers into an unforgettable encounter with the “illusions of oneness.” Few realilze that behind the “beautiful side of paganism” lie the same human tendencies that bring pain and destruction to all parts of the world: greed, violence, competition, and war.

The late Dr. Clark Wissler, Curator Emeritus of the Department of Anthropology at the American Museum of Natural History, was recognized as a world authority on Native Americans. In his book, Indians of the United States, he describes all the admirable aspects of their culture: their love for their children, their hospitality and their beliefs.

He also had the courage to expose the sad facts. Stripping away the popular myth of perfect harmony, Wissler shows us that Native Americans struggle with the same human nature we do. Look at some popular myths in the light of additional facts.

Harmony with nature? To stampede a herd of buffalo, hunters might set the grass on fire behind the flock. The escaping herd would “flounder into a swamp or tumble over a cliff.”

Preserver of life? “The early Indian hunted the wild horse for food, which may be one of the reasons why they became extinct long before white men came to America.”

Respect for all life? The Iroquois, noted for democratic self-government, “planned to destroy the Huron. It was not to be a war of subjugation; they hated the Huron intensely…. After taking the first town, the massacred the entire population. If they took captives, it was to torture them to death.” [8]

I don’t want to diminish the wrongs committed against Native Americans: killing, selling alcohol, taking their land, ignoring treaty obligations… Yet our children need to see these tragic violations in the light of the whole truth. Apart from our Creator and Savior, human nature everywhere will express its selfishness and violence. If we dismiss uncomfortable facts in order to prove a false ideal, we perpetuate the lies. We also hide the only solution that works –- trusting and following God.

Filling minds with occult visions will surely immunize the masses against the Truth of God. His reality is incompatible with mystical fantasy! Yet people has, through the ages, chosen to compromise God’s truths with their imagination. Remember the moral condition of the masses back in Noah’s days:

“…every imagination of the thoughts of his heart was only evil continually.” Genesis 6:5

Similar conditions will prevail when Jesus returns. (See Luke 17:20) Today’s occult movies and computer games, playing on the imaginations of impressionable children, could open a “Pandora’s Box” of paganism and spiritual bondage. So let’s heed His warnings:

“Beware lest anyone cheat you through philosophy and empty deceit, according to the tradition of men, according to the basic principles of the world, and not according to Christ.” Colossians 2:8

Endnotes:

1, Bill Devall and George Session, Deep Ecology (Salt Lake City: Gibbs Smith Publisher, 1985), p. ix.
2,The religious backdrop to James Cameron’s ‘Avatar‘”
3, A comment by “Hill” at Avatar-forums.com
4, Avatar: The Na’vi Quest, Adapted from the movie by Nicole Pitesa, (Harper Festival, 2009), pp. 1, 57. This small book provides some details not explained in the movie.
5, The above book answers that question: The Na’vi were meat-eating hunters, but they had to had to understand the pantheistic oneness before they could take life. When Jake kills a hexapede, he prays: “I see you, brother, and thank you. Your spirit goes with Eywa, your body stays behind to become part of the people.”[p.39]
6, Hindus ask for a disclaimer with James Cameron’s ‘Avatar
7, Al Gore, Earth in the Balance; Ecology and the Human Spirit (Houghton Mifflin, 1992), pp. 260, 258-259, 261.
8, Clark Wissler, PILD, Indians of the United States (New York. Anchor Books, Doubleday), pp. 270, 14, 287, 131.

© 2010 Berit Kjos – All Rights Reserved

Another False Promise

I got this in my e-mail today.  Apparently NOW we will be blessed as a nation for praying for Haiti, or if not, then hell will certainly swallow us up! (or them)  Where does this man get these ideas??? Does Francis truly believe that there hadn’t been any prayers for the people of Haiti until now? What about the Christians living there?

When are these people going to get it right and speak the truth? Tribulation comes to all people, as individuals and to all nations, and has throughout all time since the fall. No one completely escapes devastation and no amount of prayer will ensure that we will. There is no promise for escape. There is no promise if we pray such and such will happen, and if we do not hell will break out. Hell has already broken out!

Here is the true promise, which is one to overcome the devastation of tribulation on a spiritual level, and the one I cling to…

John 16:33 These things I have spoken to you, that in Me you may have peace. In the world you will have tribulation; but be of good cheer, I have overcome the world.”

Either Heaven or Hell
By Francis Frangipane

Since the massive 7.0 earthquake struck Haiti on January 12, news images of the apocalyptic destruction has stirred intense prayer in me for Haiti. I know I am not alone. I’m convinced that, worldwide, multitudes have been similarly compelled to pray for Haiti. Consider: its capitol city, Port-au-Prince, experienced the deaths of over 225,000 people. This staggering natural disaster is the worst to hit the Americas in recorded history.

We must keep the focus of Haiti in our prayers. If we fail to respond appropriately, certainly hell itself will swallow up this nation. Conversely, when a great need, such as exists currently in Haiti, is answered by great prayer, great things will eventually occur. Thus, I believe the potential for significant breakthroughs exits in Haiti’s future, even the hope of a spiritual awakening.

Yes, we have all heard of the voodoo and the curses upon Haiti – and I will offer some thoughts about this in my next mailing – but let me assure you there is a church in Haiti with whom the Lord is pleased. Indeed, even as we beheld the great devastation, and as we saw inconsolably distraught Haitians sitting with their dead and dying, there was something else to witness in this disaster. Against the backdrop of severe national trauma, media cameras turned toward another group of Haitians. These were people of faith, Haitian Christians. Their hands and faces uplifted, singing hymns of praise to God. In absolute defiance of their hellish circumstances, we saw men, women and children worshiping the Almighty.

I was so proud of my Haitian brothers and sisters in Christ; at the same time, I was also deeply humbled by the depth of their character. Those who were, perhaps, considered “last” in the eyes of man, God has esteemed and lifted as first. He has showcased their faith. Their remarkable trust in Him has become an unceasing witness of God’s grace to the world, both the saved and unsaved. I cannot remember seeing anything more powerful in recent years.

So let us honor and thank God for the Haitian Christians for their obedience to Christ. Let us also thank God for the small army of first responders who have fearlessly and compassionately committed themselves to Haiti’s redemption.

Finally, to all, in our world of rapidly changing priorities, let us not allow our hearts to soon forget the people of Haiti. This is an urgent hour. We must stand in the gap until victory rises from the ashes of this devastation. Please keep giving, but give in faith that God will bring a great awakening to these people. Keep praying, but pray with vision that godly leaders will arise, and that integrity and wisdom will preside over the rebuilding of Haiti. Yes, let us pray for God’s will to be done on earth, in Haiti, as it is in Heaven, for either Heaven or hell will manifest on Haiti’s streets.

Jailhouse Yoga

India inmates take yoga to reduce their jail sentences

Article and short video here

Many successful inmates go on to become yoga instructors

Prisoners in the Indian state of Madhya Pradesh are being freed early if they complete yoga courses.

For every three months spent practising posture, balance and breathing the inmates can cut their jail time by 15 days.

The authorities say the lessons help to improve the prisoners’ self-control and reduce aggression.

Some 4,000 inmates across the state are benefiting from the scheme, and many go on to become yoga instructors.

‘Angry thoughts’

The state’s inspector general of prisons, Sanjay Mane, said: “Yoga is good for maintaining fitness, calming the behaviour, controlling anger and reducing stress.

“When a prisoner attends yoga sessions and fulfils some other conditions, he will be considered for a remission if his jail superintendent recommends his case.”

Prisoners can also gain credit for attending adult literacy courses or studying for degrees.

An inmate at Gwalior central jail, Narayan Sharma – who has now moved on to become an instructor – says it helps to banish the “angry thoughts” in his mind.

“It was these thoughts that made me commit crimes,” he said.

“I hope that after we are released, we can use what we have learned and promote yoga in society so that people no longer commit crime.”

_______________________

Notice the last statement – think it’s true? I’m sure God does not agree.  Yoga is the practice of the Hindu and Buddhist religions. It is not exercise, or something to make a person feel better or think nicer thoughts. It is practiced and sold as such, but there is a much deeper spiritual meaning. Isn’t there always? And by “spiritual”, Christianity is EXCLUDED!

Romans 12:1-2 – I beseech you therefore, brethren, by the mercies of God, that you present your bodies a living sacrifice, holy acceptable to God, which is your reasonable service. 2And do not be conformed to this world, but be transformed by the renewing of your mind, that you may prove what is that good and  acceptable and perfect will of God.

Not just for Indian jailhouses  tho –

Tampa Bay Jailhouse Yoga

Now confined inside Orient Road Jail, they (female inmates) learn new techniques for coping with life’s difficulties. “We imprison ourselves with our stories and our histories,” Dumois-Sands adds. “So yoga and book discussion is about exploring different paths to who we are and possible paths of liberation.

How about Yoga for Incarcerated Youth?

Workshops are about teaching YOUTH who are at risk – we have hatha, vinyassa, bickram instructors as well as kundalini.

Kundalini.

Would it be sarcastic to say that not only do parents need to be aware of what their kids are taught in school, but also in jail…?


and still more bad water continues to flow together…

Email from International House of Prayer

Dear Friends,

As you may know, John and Carol Arnott were with us in Kansas City a few weeks ago at our awakening services. They have some upcoming conferences that we’d like to let you know about.

Blessings,
IHOP–KC Leadership Team

newnewnew Toronto Pastors and Leaders Conference


January 19–22, with Bill Johnson, C. Peter Wagner, and John and Carol ArnottThere is a new wave of revival quickly spreading; now is the time to get ready!

Toronto Airport Christian Fellowship (TACF) is excited to announce that Bill Johnson and C. Peter Wagner will be speaking at their Pastors and Leaders Conference, January 19–22.

Gather with pastors and leaders from around the world in this great moment of preparation. You will be blessed to hear Bill Johnson and C. Peter Wagner who both have outstanding messages for leaders at this time in history.

This conference is a time for you to receive, so TACF is offering prophetic ministry for all senior pastors. Don’t miss this opportunity to have your spirit refreshed, your mind challenged, and your faith uplifted.

Sign up today!

unveilingnew

Unveiling Conference
May 12–15, with Mike Bickle, Heidi Baker, and John and Carol Arnott

It is time for Christians from all over the world to join together and seek after God with hunger and anticipation for what He has in store for us. It is time for many houses to work together, with all God’s people ready for the harvest.

This year, TACF’s Unveiling Conference will be a time when three streams of revival (TACF, IHOP Kansas City, and Iris Ministries) join together in one accord to seek after the kingdom of God and to listen to what the voice of God is saying at this time. Join many from around the world to chase after our Bridegroom and set our hearts on His love for us and His plan for our lives in the next season.

Mike Bickle and Heidi Baker, along with John and Carol Arnott, are fervently seeking God in this season which many believe are the end times. They are all crying out for the Spirit of God to reach people everywhere, and that the prophetic voice of God’s people will bring change to our cities and nations.

This conference will be packed with amazing worship, cutting-edge teaching from powerful men and women of God, and practical workshops to strengthen your walk with God. Don’t miss out on this chance to be impacted by God. Sign up today.

Click here for more information.

footerfacebookfootertwitterfooterflickrfooterihop
International House of Prayer, 3535 E. Red Bridge Road, Kansas City, MO 64137


This email was sent to you via the International House of Prayer web site.
If you do not wish to receive further emails, please click here.

Wakey Wakey Whacked Words

Ray brought to my attention the blog of Beni Johnson (the wife of Bill Johnson, Bethel Church in Redding CA, USA) Beni is doing a women’s conference this weekend – Girls Just Want to Have Fun – with Lili Crowder (wife of the heretic John Crowder, who, along with his apostate pal Benjamin Dunn formed Sons of Thunder, now in Santa Cruz, CA)  If you have kiddies keep them from these mad mystics! We can see how far off base Bethel is headed now.

From Ray-

Mkayla
Found this piece of profound insight on Beni Johnsons blog.I knew that Bill and co were off the mark, but it would appear that Beni is the one drinking from the weird well.Her comment about ” seers” reveals plenty of where her heart is.Wasn’t sure if this was the right place to post this , but it seems to fit here.
…………………………………………………………………………

Several years ago, I was talking with one of our seers. (A seer is one who has the ability or gift of seeing into the spirit realm.) We were talking about the prayer house. There had been some strange ungodly happenings going on around the house. She told me that there was an illegal communication line going into the prayer house. Obviously, this was something that was not legal and needed to be taken care of. I knew I needed to pray and get God’s solution to this intrusion. As I asked God, I felt like I was to take the shofar to the prayer house and blow it there. So I went early one morning with a friend, and when the sun came up, I blew the shofar. That is all I did. I didn’t pray. This was the first time I had ever used the shofar. I really have no idea why. I had never been a fan of blowing the shofar. Someone had given me one and I thought they were cool, but didn’t think I would use it for anything. But little did I know?. Because of the strange happenings going on and our prayer house being open 24/7, we had brought on security staff to watch over the place. So, after I blew the shofar that day, I waited a week and went to our security guy and asked him how the week had gone at the house. He did not know that we had blown the shofar the week before. His response to me was, “You know, the strangest thing happened this week. There was no weirdness. It all has left.” I was so excited and I knew that the sound of the shofar had released the sound of heaven that displaced the evil intent. Since then, we have used the shofar from time to time to release a sound into the atmosphere. Just like in the declarations that we pray, the same power that is released when we declare is the same power that is released in sound. God’s first language is not English, nor does he just use words to fulfill His will. That is the adventure of serving Him. Listen for His voice and be a releaser of the sounds of heaven!

From Me:

Ray,
Oh my! Blowing the shofar, huh? Wasn’t that done for a call to worship, a call to assemble and something holy?? As far as I know, women didn’t blow shofars. But listen, this new agey thing she is saying and this is certainly not new. But the sound that releases _______ into the atmosphere. We hear that same thing from so many – Kim Clement, Joanne McFatter, Chuck Pierce…many others.

Jesus is the New Covenant. When do we read the disciples blowing a shofar??? It is the old way, the old covenant and even then it didn’t have supernatural powers!

God’s first language is not English, nor does he just use words to fulfill His will. God’s first language does not have to be English, but it is the language many of us, including Beni speak when we speak to God. but that second part – He doesn’t just use words….meaning what, that God uses sound??? or??? Chapter and verse, please Beni! Can’t you just see the demons running around playing right along with these games? Even supposing the action was demonic we aren’t told to blow a shofar, but to pray. but then again, who can say what is meant when the “seer” (gag) told me that there was an illegal communication line going into the prayer house. What does that MEAN? More vain imaginations. She could have gotten the same effect by using a kazzoo.

I didn’t find this on her blog. (Can you send me the link?) But I did find some other things just as strange and misleading. Pied Piper.

______________________________________

Their hypocrisy knows no bounds!  I wanted to show you just how stupid this prophetic (not) stuff is getting.  Some of you will gag, some of you will laugh out loud. In honor of the girls theme I am using the color pink for my comments for added fun.

March 16, 2009

WAKEY WAKEY

Angels are among us! They come for a lot of reasons. There are different kinds of angels: messenger angels, healing angels, fiery angels. Ok, Angels are messengers period. They do not bring healing. Does anyone know what a fiery angel is?  Maybe the one who brings the fire when they call out “Fire! Fire!” I think that they have been bored for a long time and are ready to be put to work.  So, the angels who were created by God have grown bored. Is she kidding with this? I thought angels did the work of God, not the work of man, not -especially- the work of Beni Johnson! They are here to help usher the Kingdom of God into our realm. As we begin to recognize that they are among us, we will begin to see more angelic activity as we pull heaven to earth. This is dominionism at it’s creepiest. They actually think they are creating an atmosphere different from the one God created. Is she suggesting that the work of the cross by Jesus Christ, the son of God did not usher in the kingdom of God here on earth? Sounds like it to me. Better watch out.

One of our students came to our Supernatural School of Ministry from Wales. Before she moved here, she had a major encounter with God. She was woken in the middle of the night because the presence of God was so strong in her room. She could see a visible cloud in her room, (remember this is what Todd Bentley refers to as “the Glory”) and she waited on God to see what He was saying. Then God said to her, “I want you to go to Moriah Chapel and say ‘wakey wakey.'” She thought, “You want me to do what?! I’m sorry God, but I’m not doing that!”  Good idea to question this directive! Then He said to her again, “I want you to go to Moriah Chapel and say ‘wakey wakey.'” Ok. Do any of you reading this actually believe that our Almighty God uses words like wakey wakey? At that point, she knew that if she didn’t do it, she would regret it for the rest of her life. The next day when she got to the chapel, there were a lot of people outside. She said normally the chapel was empty. She asked God why there were so many people there and He said to her, “Because I had to tell you twice.” And had she not gone she would have avoided the humiliation completely! She stood outside of the chapel and whispered “wakey wakey” because she did not want anyone to hear her. God then said to her, “Is that how much you want revival in Wales?” She then stood there that day and yelled at the top of her lungs, “WAKEY WAKEY”!!!  This must be the new summons for the revival genie.

Nothing happened for about five minutes, so she turned around to cross the road to go over to a shop. time to shop! As she turned around, she felt the ground begin to shake and heard this huge yawn. Dig it! A YAWN! She looked back at the chapel, and a huge angel stepped out. All she could see were his feet because he was that large. A huge angel so large this person could only see his feet, yet he walked out of a chapel. I’m assuming the door. So, what, did he suddenly grow as he passed through the door frame?  I am thinking Hulk here. She asked him who he was, and he turned to her and said, “I am the angel from the 1904 revival and you just woke me up.” Isn’t it amazing and astonishingly prophetic that these guys always hear from revival angels of the past?  1904 – does that make him the Azusa angel? But the most intriguing part is that he was ASLEEP! She asked him, “Why have you been asleep?” The angel answered and said, “Because no one has been calling out for revival anymore.” What crap. True revival is on the hearts and lips of all believers as they utter their prayers for such to God! But hear the repetitive message that no one is doing what they should be  – over and over we hear this! She then asked him if he was the angel that was going to bring the next revival. He told her no because the next revival would bring in many more souls for the Kingdom. Who knows what that means as it makes no sense to me. Since the angel has awoken, he has been seen by many others around Wales. Let’s get this ironed out. Ok, assuming this story is even true —The angel was awakened from his sleep by the summons Wakey Wakey to bring revival, ordered by God, only to say that he would not be bringing revival? Are these people on lsd or what? Do they read this stuff before it goes to print?

I don’t know about you, but that would really get me excited! Having a visitation like that would really shake you up. I like angels. When you talk about them, they like to show up! And when they come, they bring the presence of God. They do? I never realized God needed angels to bring His presence. Being the Almighty Creator and existing before any of us including the angels, I would think He would have that worked out.  My!  The implication of her words!

In the last couple of months, I personally have become more aware of the angelic activity in this realm. One of those times was when we were on a prayer trip to Arizona. A group of us had decided that it was time for us to take a prayer trip down to Sedona to release more of God’s Kingdom. In doing so, we rented an RV and drove from Redding, California, (where we live) all the way down to Sedona, Arizona. Along the way, we would stop and pray if we felt impressed to do so. Of course, Sedona where all the new agers and witches congregate!

One morning as we were driving up over Tehachapi Pass and coming down into the Mojave Desert, I began to feel angels. The closer we got, the stronger the impression felt. I could see them everywhere! Whenever there are angels present, I get very animated and excited, (Funny, that in the bible when grown men saw angels they were filled with fear and had to be reassured they were ok! But Beni and her gang are special.) knowing that God is up to something big. I announced this to the group and said, “We have got to stop! We have to stop somewhere.” (potty stop) We found an exit, took it and drove into this little town. We didn’t really know what to do or where to go. We just knew that something was going on and we needed to find out what. As we drove around a corner I said, “I think that we are going to wake up some angels here.” No sooner had I said that than we drove past a hotel to our left and, no joke, the name of the store was Mariah Country Inn. When I saw that sign, we immediately remembered the wakey wakey story from Wales. Moriah and Mariah are not the same names. But what the heck, it’s only off by one little ol letter, right? We knew we were to turn around, get out of the RV and wake up the angels. I wish I could convey to you the energy and the quickness of how God was working. Yeah, this is something that was failed to be mentioned in the bible. We are so glad we have you to fill us in tho on how these things really work. We jumped out of the RV, I blew the shofar and rang the bell, (wait – rang the bell? the bell? now I’m hysterical – every time a bell rings an angel gets his wings! I guess that’s what she was doing then, huh?) and we yelled “WAKEY WAKEY.” We got back into the RV and drove off. As we drove off, hilarious laughter broke out! like hysteria We were stunned at the speed at which this all took place and were spinning from the adventure and the angelic activity. What in the world had just happened?! Heaven collided with earth. Woo hoo!! Something collided all right but I very much doubt that heaven and earth collided seeing as we are all still alive. So at the end of the day what did God do here, exactly! After all the excitement and showfar blowing and bell ringing, decreeing, giggling girl style, what exactly happened?? Oh, Nothing!

Since that time, there has been a stirring in me to awaken the angels for use in this Kingdom reign that is upon us here on earth. I have shared these two stories in other places and have done a prophetic act of waking up the angels: having everybody cry out, “WAKEY WAKEY!” I know it is strange but it is very effective.

Where do these people get this stuff?  They just run around all over the country doing these strange things in the name of God with no biblical basis whatsoever. Guess who’s funding all this fun? Again, I am reminded of the false prophetic word John Kilpatrick was given – RESURRECTION (go here). Kinda close.

One more story: yippie! We were having a conference here at the church. Randy Clark was our speaker along with Bill. Yes, Randy and Bill often “minister” together. Randy had lost his Bible somewhere at the church. We couldn’t find it anywhere. One of our gals who enjoys God’s angels  – yippie – and gets pretty wacked when they are around, was standing next to a friend of mine. She announced that there was an angel right by her. He had been helping us look for Randy’s Bible. He said to her, “Then why don’t you ask the angel where Randy’s Bible is.” She did. When she did, she turned and walked towards our administration building. She walked right into Bill’s office, got down on the floor, looked between the couch and table and there was his Bible. Angel is another name for a spirit guide or as the bible calls them familiar spirits. Not the same as the angels who are in heaven, but more of the fallen type that took sides with Lucifer…you know the story…

Angels are here and they are among us. Be ready to use them when you are supposed to. We do not worship angels, nor do we command them around, but we should not be ignoring them either. How exactly can we “use” angels especially since she says we cannot command them. Isn’t wakey wakey commanding them to awaken?  Hello? They are here to carry out God’s Kingdom. We have noticed that they also like having fun and being among us. They have been sent to assist us, and we need all the help we can get. I, for one, am ready and willing and God is releasing more! So get ready. They will come at times when you least expect it!  I am sure the “angels” that gather around Beni and her gang have a great time. I am sure the upcoming stoopid, drunk, tokin the ghost party will be a blast.   Too bad it won’t be so much of a party to find out who was behind all this fun at the end of days.

WAKEY WAKEY!!

Someone really needs to wake up but it isn’t the angels.

Beni’s blog    (just in case you think I’m kiddin’. And you will see this wakey wakey thing is a part of her life now. Impartation coming soon to a city near you.)
———
There is no fear of God  – none.   He has been reduced to their “pal”,  a god of their own understanding and making, therefore they are free to do as they please. Yes, I am making fun of her in this article. Her actions and teachings are so stupid that I can’t believe she has put them in print, much less on the internet! But what these people do to the name of Christ is not funny. Being a 5th generation pastor as Bill is so quick to point out, he is without excuse to allow this mess to go on.  And one day this woman will no longer be laughing as she is now. Where is the humor in maligning the word of God and the work of angels?  These claims she has made are not in the bible, not one of them.
If you run with Bethel, run the other way. It’s time. I have already shown you the false teaching behind the healing rooms in which Johnson is a part of. We’ve seen them join forces with and protect Todd Bentley and we know where that went. We have seen them come together just recently with IHOP and the hosts of the Toronto Blessing.  We know they follow the direction of the false prophet Bob Jones. This is the next step of darkness.  Their joining with Crowder is a really bad move but it does show us who they really are. The love of the truth is not in them.

FIRE! FIRE! Receive? or Run?

There is a good conversation beginning under the post Slain in Whose Spirit?  It is thought-provoking and worth it’s own place on the blog and so I have given it one.

When others call for Fire! Fire! in sermons and in prayer time what exactly are they calling for? These false revivalists love the word fire. Should we run for cover?  What about Fire Tunnels made of two rows of people joined overhead hand in hand creating a tunnel. Others walk through and “receive” fire, impartation and prophetic words from those lined up creating the tunnel…

Below is the conversation. Feel free to join in!

From Ray:

We had an episode in church about six months ago when a visiting Ugandan preacher took the iniative to address the congregation [ impromtu ] and the next thing i heard was ” fire fire” , i knew immediately what this was , and it wasn’t good, but what astounded me the most was the reckless manner in which so many people fell over themselves [ and others ] just to get to the front to grab a piece of this annointing.I singled out one particular person in order to engage their opinion of the mornings events, and the response was well , less than overwhelming. Apparently it was real because it happened!!.Wow , what discernment, never mind that satan is capable of convincing false signs and wonders and that he appears as an angel of light.All things must be discerned by the word, and not by the experience.

From ruthsongs:

This “fire, fire” thing hit a church I used to attend a few years back. The visiting evangelist yelled “fire, fire” most of the “prayer time” night after night. I wasn’t impressed…more like perplexed.

What do you make of John the Baptist saying Jesus would baptize with the Holy Spirit and with fire?

In the context of people “praying” for fire, I understood them to mean something like passion for the Lord/the lost. But it has become a buzz word now. I can only see other scripture referring to fire as something destructive- as in hell’s fire, or actual, physical fire.

From Diane:

I just left a church that is very into the “fire, fire” prayers. I knew the intention of the prayer was for a manifestation of the Holy Spirit, and it sometimes bothered me. One, because it felt like begging God for a “feel good” super-spiritual experience, and also because I’d never read in the bible that we should pray for fire. Now that I’m out of that church, the topic of fire in the bible is one of the many things I’m taking a closer look into. I have to say, I agree with your conclusion “I can only see other scripture referring to fire as something destructive- as in hell’s fire, or actual, physical fire”

Just last week I was reading the words of John the Baptist that you’ve quoted, which don’t seem to fit into the “destructive fire” category. When I kept reading, a subsequent verse caught my eye and led me to do a little research. I will try to explain what I’m thinking.

Matthew 3:11-12 (11) I baptize you with water for repentance. But after me will come one who is more powerful than I, whose sandals I am not fit to carry. He will baptize you with the Holy Spirit and with fire. (12) His winnowing fork is in his hand, and he will clear his threshing floor, gathering his wheat into the barn and burning up the chaff with unquenchable fire.

Now, I always understood the “and with fire” in verse 11 to be more of the Spirit….like pizza with extra cheese. But what if it’s something different? Maybe Jesus baptizes with two different things, and each person will have one (the Holy Spirit) or eventually the other (fire). That’s what verse 12 seems to suggest. These two verses so close together made me wonder if the ideas go together. So I went to blueletterbible.com and did my first word study! I learned that the Greek word for fire in both of these verses is the same, pyr, which is a consuming fire of judgment. So, I’m thinking I’m onto something here. I’m still working on how to articulate it, but this fire doesn’t sound like an attribute of the Holy Spirit to me.

What do you think? Does anyone else have any insight?